Art Vs. Craft

1:05 AM Friday, May 15, 2009

<a href="http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5954191">Vonbeads</a> posted <a href="http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6147445">this little gem in the forums</a> and of course it got shut down. Any thoughts?

<blockquote>vonbeads
vonbeads says:
Could there possibly be some distinction between the true art on Etsy and the throngs of craft items that can be mass produced with glue, and a handful of items that were purchased at a store and slightly altered to become handmade. No offense to all you crafters out there, but you are clogging up Etsy with your countless knick knacks. It's the same thing when i go to an Arts and Crafts fair. I set up my torch and start making handmade glass(pretty well if I do say so myself) and instead of making a killing, like so many of the older, female, vendors, who's ART is to paint a piece of wood (that they bought precut) green and sell it as a homemade christmas tree decoration or something. Not that that's bad, its just not art. people have a hard time finding me, im sure, because when i look up marbles, i find a huge assortment of those store bought half-marbles with pictures from magazines glued to the back. and im sure that WAY more of those sell on here than the handmade marbles that are being pushed further and further into the abyss, never to be seen again. there should be a way to rate items as art so that they are more easily findable. thanks for your time, and seriously no offense crafters. vaughn evans
Posted at 11:40 am, May 11 2009 EST</blockquote>

24 comments:

  1. also why dont you put a link up to your work, suzanne? put your money where your mouth is.

    vonbeads

  2. Vonbeads - you're such a jack ass. Do you not see the flies circling your load of bullshit? Seriously. Do you HONESTLY think your "crap" is better then anyone elses? I'm sorry but your "marbles" look like any other "marbles" I've seen before. There is nothing unique OR special about what you make. I HAVE, however, seen other glass ARTISTS who make amazing things with glass and flame, things that should be considered ART. I do not consider "marbles" art. Ever. Anyone got some jacks? We can all play a game with his "marbles" that he's obviously lost.

    Christine

  3. Well von according to your original whine you do go to arts & CRAFT shows where all those crafts outsell your ART! Maybe that should tell you something about your marbles. Loser.

    laughs

  4. suzanne, actually most of my best glass is not online, because its at a gallery. (its probably a CRAFT gallery though, seeing as how its glass, right?) lol. just because its a craft to you, doesnt mean that some people havent turned it into an art form. its kind of like if i said painting is just a craft, because i had only ever painted my house. but feel free to keep on being insulting. actually, on second thought, maybe you should just STFU. i dont go to craft shows, because there are too many assholes like you there. (that cant make art.) have fun crafting!

    vonbeads

  5. well, etsy isn't a site just for fine arts - it's for anything handmade, vintage and supply. So I think her point is... pointless :) she should find a venue that is just for fine art if that's more to her liking.

    -an etsy fine artist :)

    ashirley

  6. There's crap on Etsy to be sure, but hello, you shouldn't go around saying so!

    forum rubbernecker

  7. Really insulting, I think. He's too good for mere "crafters". Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I can only hope all of the "crafters" who might have bought his marbles to craft with have second thoughts and buy from someone who doesn't have their head up their butt.

    Who the hell is he, to define what is and what is not art?

    Oh and I would love to know why it costs 8.00 to send ONE MARBLE overseas.

    toonces

  8. ROFLAMO! Now she makes glass beads? Who is she shitting? I thought she was disabled? She can't even handmake her own shit!

    Gern Blanston

  9. OOPS Nevermind. I got this confused with VonLady. Seriously, the rant sounded like her and the Von name....

    Erase, erase, erase.

    Gern Blanston

  10. It's one thing to quietly prefer one approach to another and respect the boundaries that come with being part of a wide community, but that thread was like watching a drunk guy fumble up onto a table and slur "You all suck!" at the rest of the party. More like someone drunk on self-righteous frustration and hopping onto a soapbox, really... Anyway, not the best business move.

    And you know, it's really a shame that vonbeads aired that vitriol for all to see. I had bookmarked one of their marbles before and was seriously considering buying one of them before I saw that post. No way do I want to buy something (especially something handmade) from someone with so much bitterness and nasty energy about them.

    Sarah

  11. It just sounds like sour grapes to me. If you want a juried site, go to a juried site, not etsy. I'm sure there must be a group of handmade marble collectors out there somewhere, so go out and find them. I highly doubt there is a market for them on etsy, and what the heck would you do with one if you bought one? Provided you could find it in the search under all the crap that the rest of us sell, of course.
    oh, and I'm one of those 'older female vendors' who makes crappy crafty stuff. But, you know what? MY CRAP SELLS!

    elizabeth

  12. Ahhhh, sorry I missed that one.

    Especially because glass is considered CRAFT. Yup, it is.

    I do CRAFT shows.....I can't apply to, or get into Fine Art shows as a glass artist. And neither could he.

    So, there.

    Suzanne

  13. I have to agree with the poster. Etsy markets their "handmade" brand pretty hard but clearly the powers that be really want the best of the best. Everyone with a bottle of glue is trying to make a buck on Etsy these days and it drowns out alot of sellers that have a good product. Maybe the poster was just trying to say what alot of us are thinking.

    I just have to say that glass art is definitely 'fine art'. As with any art form, juried shows determine what gets in based on your level of skill. If you can't do anything but craft shows, you might need to keep working on it.

    Kraken Mosaics

  14. Kraken Mosaics, I agree with his general message too. It's really not what he said, it's how he said it - alienating and insulting half of Etsy along the way. You just managed to say the same thing and did it without putting anyone else down.

    toonces

  15. wow, you put my whiny letter on here for another round of hatin'. lol. yeah, i was pretty upset that day, just got laid off, and was sick of being constantly looked over. happens to the best of us. but i still have to support my opinion, (not my rude soapboxy style of saying it) and will restate that EVERYONE has the complete right to sell whatever they want on etsy, if you happened to catch that article, i was talking about how when i look up handmade marbles, an artform which takes many years of practice and dedication, i can't find any. they are definitely there. if you dig you find more and more as you go. but i was saying it would be nice if we could make a special place for specialized areas of artistic interest, so that the consumer could find them easier, and so the sellers of said art(craft, whatever) as well as etsy could make more sales. unfortunately, in doing so i insulted many craftspeople. im young, full of myself, and obviously a horrid salesman.
    my post was an attempt to enhance the search criteria on etsy through a specific example. it just so happened that my etsy decorum failed me that day. in the real world, i dont have to watch every little thing i say to make sure i dont upset anyone. especially if im trying to make a point about something that i believe could change the entire art scene in this world, introducing us all to some of the most important art ever made, not my crafty little marbles or whatnot, but simply the best of whats out there, which is definitely not how etsy works. (NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE(AT ALL!!!))
    but on a related note, if anyone is interested in browsing the following items,go ahead and type in handmade marbles in etsy, and this is what youll find on the first page, NONE of which are even marbles at all, let alone handmade marbles:



    HANDMADE FELT NECKLACE, JEWELRY

    MAZE ceramic marble-effect pendant necklace

    NETZ ceramic marble-effect bead necklace

    CREAMY WHITE - Handmade Marble Wooden Frame Holds 4 x 6 Photo

    Hand Crafted Polymer Clay Mokume Gane Bracelet

    Polymer Clay Faux Pink Marble Heart Pendant

    the super chub in barley, taupe, fisherman, and marble

    Marbled Green and Orange - Irregular Round - 13mm - Pack of 10

    Marbled Orange and Yellow - Irregular Round - 13mm - Pack of 10

    Marbled Green and Orange - Irregular Round - 13mm - Pack of

    Marbled Deep Blue and White - Irregular Round - 13mm - Pack of 5

    Black Noose Necklace

    Wee Dahlia Flower - Original Art - Polymer Rubber Stamp

    Sunset over the Sea Fused Glass Earrings

    Large Marbled Turquoise Stone Artisan Ring - Wire Wrapped - Custom Size

    Marble clay with Swarovski crystal earring

    Happy-A Tiny Soldered Glass Bauble Pebble Pendant Necklace

    BUY 2 - GET 1 FREE - Handmade Recycled Glass Image Pendant with 18 inch Ballchain Necklace - HAVE YOU SEEN MY MARBLES(THIS IS WHAT THE NECKLACE SAYS-vonbeads)

    Hope and Dream Glass Marble Charms(THESE ARE NOT MARBLES_vonbeads)

    3 Lava Glow Glass Perfume Vials Bottles

    Polymer Clay Covered Pen




    That is the reason i was upset, when there is definitely so many great artists in my field that sell their wares on etsy, so that EVERYONE can find it, not just people looking specifically through juried websites, (by the way, Ive been making glass professionally for 8 years, and I have no idea what sites anyone is talking about, because ive never heard of any, so I would assume that most people who know nothing about glass, but would like to purchase some, would also have NEVER heard of any of these sites.) which is why i thinks its important for etsy to be a showcase for this and many other emerging arts.
    Alright, rant over. im sure ive unwittingly offended some of you yet again. somehow or another. but if theres one great thing about being an artist, it's that you learn how to take a little bit of critiscism. thank you for taking the time. vaughn evans

    vonbeads

  16. It takes a long time to learn how to sew really well too but it's still not a fine art. Get over yourself and promote your shop if you feel you're being looked over. If you sit around comparing yourself to others and feel entitled to more recognition because you've achieved a higher state of artiness you'll get no where.

    Dancia

  17. Wow, I stick to my original thesis on the thread more now that the person has tried to vindicate themselves here: Fur Hole.

    That's all I've got to say.

    Christine

  18. Once a douche always a douche it seems.

    And I love the argument that if he hasn't heard of any other site no one else has either. Yeah. That's how it works big guy.

    laughs

  19. [...] I recently discovered this quirky little blog (thank you Google Analytics) and came across this Art vs. Craft post while reading last week. It’s really just another response to the same old Etsy argument [...]

    Art vs. Crap «

  20. Some of these comments are a little harsh. You act as if this person was offending YOU.

    http://krakenmosaics.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/art-vs-crap/

    Kraken Mosaics

  21. Kraken, Glass is craft, bottom line . I'm not making this up.

    I have been doing this (successfully) for 10 years. And I sell at some of the top Craft shows in the country (where Fine Arts are not accepted). I am doing just fine with my work. I also sell at shows that label themselves Art & Craft.

    I can not apply to any of the Fine Art shows in the area....not because I'm not "talented" enough. It's because they don't accept Functional art. And that's what I make.

    I'm just saying that there is a difference between Craft and Fine Art in the Art world. It doesn't make one better than the other.

    Suzanne

  22. I'm really sorry to hear that glass isn't considered art!

    I'm somewhat of a glass artist myself and my artwork does make it into the fine art exhibits. I guess it depends on what you are making. Glass is a big category.

    Kraken Mosaics

  23. P.S. I hate that Wordpress doesn't allow me to click on your names to get to your blog.

    Kraken Mosaics

  24. www.suzannetanner.com

    I'm a glassblower.....and this is the work I sell at Art & Craft Shows. I'm not here to insult anyone, vonbead. I'm trying to explain that there is a difference between Fine Art & Craft. I am not a fine artist. Am I an artist? Yes. Fine Artist? No. Glassblowers that make functional work fall into the Craft category. Glassblowers that make nonfunctional work can fall into the Fine Art category. I don't know how to say it any differently.

    It's great that your work is in Galleries (whatever the type), vonbead.....but none of us have ESP, so we have to make judgements based on what you write, and what you are showing us (online). Had you provided some links to the work that is in galleries, this might not have gotten so heated.

    (I do sell my blown glass, and other glass things in my Etsy shop....I'll be the first one to admit that some of the things in my Etsy shop are "crafty". I wouldn't pass them off as "art", or try to get juried into a show with them).

    Suzanne

Post a Comment