ShadeJewelry kicked off Etsy..
9:49 PM Tuesday, August 4, 2009<a href="http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6237369&page=6">http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6237369&page=6</a>
Was it the negative feedback left lately? I do feel bad for that customer that is going to get married before getting his engagement rings back from Shade.
Thoughts?
He only has 4 negatives . . . . isn't there some seller out there who has over 200 negatives? There must be more to the story.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM
good riddance.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM
That's a bummer. I enjoyed his posts on the forums. Looking at his feedback though, it seems like some of the positive feedback really should have been neutral or negative. But like Freckley said, there are sellers with tons of negative feedback on Etsy who are still up and running. There must be more to the story. I wonder if this might have something to do with it, from his feedback:
"To emphasize, I have filed a non-delivery report with Etsy and more recently a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, yet still no response."
Better Business Bureau? I don't know much about them or what kind of power they have in cases such as these.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Just Me, did you have a bad experience with him?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Wow. There has to be more to this story. There are other jewelry sellers with far more negatives.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
This isn't the first time they shut him down. He is too immature to be a seller. If he had my thousand bucks and I had his address I would turn his ass in for internet fraud or do to him whatever the hell I could to to him legally. Etsy is better of without sellers like this. Etsy has a few more bad ones to go, too, IMHO.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I was surprised - wasn't he featured in the "Quit Your Day Job" series of articles?
My husband has filed reports with the BBB before and soon after the businesses contacted my husband to rectify the problem. It seemed like the businesses hated being reported and wanted to clear up the problem as soon as possible. I'm not sure though how much influence they have over a small-business owner though.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I know he's well-liked but I found almost all of his forum posts to be shit-stirring and trollish. He had his little band of fawning female admirers following him around though, just waiting to gush every time he posted something. Men are given a free pass in the forums, for the most part.
The post he started about 6 months ago, asking if anyone else got a big bag of free stuff from Etsy really got me - it was completely disingenuous and typical of the kinds of things he posted there. OF COURSE not everyone was getting "thank you" bags of swag and freebies from Etsy, and the fact that he posted his pretend innocent question just so he could rub everyone's nose in it, and also put Etsy in the hot seat, was indicative of the reason I disliked him.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
It's about damn time! Anyone with a brain can see his feedback has led to some pretty pissed of customers who have obviously taken action. Good for them! If he spent less time in the forums and more time getting his orders out and talking to his customers he wouldn't be in this pickle.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
It does seem ironic that he can manage to chat away in the forums but not respond to his customers.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
LOL Amy!
I mean, 2 cases of just not delivering an item? What's up with that?
I'm not a huge forum poster, but his posts did stick out as kinda...harsh? Petty?
I did love his stuff though, and I think he'll be back soon.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
But the other sellers with neg feedback still delivered their items, right?
These are some expensive items these buyers purchased..so hence, maybe the seriousness?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
BTW, I did some looking around. The jewelry seller I was thinking of with over 200 negatives is gone too. And another jewelry/supplies seller who had over 60 negatives, well, her shop is empty.
I'm not defending Shade; I was just a little surprised that Etsy would take that action against one of their favorites. But maybe, just maybe, they're starting to crack down on some violators.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I am going to have to learn to read feedback rather than just visiting with folks in the forum. I thought it was neat he was young and running a successful business. Sigh.. but there has to be more than just the four negatives, unless it has to do with the amount of money involved. I know there are certain legalities to transactions over a certain dollar amount.
Oh that .. did you get a goodie bag thread.. geez ! don't you know the minute Etsy admin saw that, they ran for the aspirin bottle.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I think Shade was their sheep to the offering. Everyone on the forums bitches about Etsy's "favorites" and "why not me" posts etc... so maybe they saw an opportunity to off one of their trophy sellers - with a big old "see? We don't have favoritism over anyone."
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I thought he came across a little arrogant and liked to stir up stuff, too. Getting married is one of the bigger ordeals in your life and if you can't get your ring(s) (which most people spend big money on), yeah, they're going to make a big stink over it. Etsy needs to listen and take action if they want to continue to keep the high end jewelry BUYERS on there so the sellers of that kind of priced jewelry better have perfect feedback! You never know, BBB may have pressured Etsy to do something about it.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Seen this Poor Widdle Me! post he made on the forums yet?
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6240154
I have to admit that nothing about his style from his forum posts to his work was ever to my taste, but jeeze! This is really unnecessary. Try a little subtlety, kid.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I second the thought that there are others with far more negatives. There are others with snide, caustic behavior as well.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Notice he did not have any response to any of the problems other than "woe is me". I mean at least respond and give some sort of coherent explanation.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
If you actually read his feedback even the positive mention poor communication and long delivery times. Half didn't even leave feedback. You would leave feedback for an item like that if you were happy. For every one rat you see there is ten behind the wall as the saying goes.
I think it would take a lot to get rid of a big seller like him. I am sure they didn't want to but it just got so bad.
I thought he was going to leave etsy anyways so I think people should just chill out.
It just blows my mind though how he could spend all that time in the forum and not reply to emails from customers.
What I do feel sorry for him is that he no longer has the forums (although he still goes there so wtf?). It sounds like his life is sad and he was king of the hill in the forums and know there is no hill.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Etsy must be pissed. They even deleted his Quit Your Day Job article. The link to it says "Sorry we cannot find that article."
http://www.etsy.com/storque/spotlight/quit-your-day-job-shadejewelry-2357/
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
let me put a couple rumors to rest right now:
number one:
the last neg I got revolved around fixing a ring, the customer ordered a ring in the wrong size, and send it back to me for resizing, which meant remaking and making a wedding ring to go with him. the total bill for it was 550 dollars.
the customer plead poverty, and we negotiated 100 bucks, but he had to wait 2 months, I was backed up at the time and needed the time. I didn't even want him to send the ring until then but he did. I ended up doing the rings, and refunding him the money.
number two:
I'm a one person shop, I do all the manufacturing of rings, and all the customer service, many of my rings take over 20 hours to make. and I woudl sometimes make rings, when maybe I should have answered convos, but all convos where answered within 24-48 hours, and people where always told of this, and my turnaround time.
number three:
I did spend time in the forums, but I spent time in the forums when I took breaks from shop work, or when I had to stop working to let me equipment rest. and would be answering convos at the same time, or I would go in the forums after doing convos.
number four:
my last positive, they talk about me not being responsive, they were trying to contact etsy actually, they thought my account was deleted and where trying to contact etsy instead of me.
number five:
after receiving notice from etsy, I got no replies to any of my e-mails. the only person of any importance to contact me was the owner of artfire.
number six:
I'm glad to see a lot of people coming out of the wood work with opinions on this, but not actually putting there names to there opinions.
talk is cheap, especially internet talk.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
@max
I find that pretty funny
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
talk is cheap, especially internet talk.
-Chris
-------------------------------------
The other problem is that when dealing with the internet, one's words, actions, and business transactions are recorded and available for just about anyone to view. Discretion is a virtue.
::shrugs::
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I say good riddance too!
I feel sorry for his customers for having to wait so long.
Whenever I went to the forums it was always the same people, Shade, Tissage, KreatedbyKarena.... the Etsy know-it-alls.
They all would probably do better if they spent less time in the forums.
Thank you ETSY
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Whatever. Etsy should be screening for the Real Bad Guys. This is small potatoes (to everyone but Shade, that is) compared to the shit that they don't bother addressing.
Etsy has been dumping people quite a bit lately: and I am talkin' about PEOPLE not sweatshops or resellers.
Priorities? Do they have them? Rhetorical question.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I feel sorry for his customers for having to wait so long.
Whenever I went to the forums it was always the same people, Shade, Tissage, KreatedbyKarena.... the Etsy know-it-alls.
They all would probably do better if they spent less time in the forums.
Thank you ETSY
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Regardless of the situation, Etsy at least owes him an explanation as to why............
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Actually, shade would have been fine if he explained that he refunded where he screwed up and apologized to the customers. Did you see any refunds or apologies? Did he ever once say anything at all was his fault?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
@forumrubbernecker
I did in fact apologize and refund when it was the appropriate thing to do.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I just have to say that mush of what is being said here is half truths, conjecture and lies.
and as for customers waiting long....
My turn around is clearly stated in my profile and I will confirm it with any one that asks. I make custom rings one at a time, if you want a ring tomorrow go to walmart, many custom jewelry manufacturers have much longer turn around, I think niessing and kretchmer are around 6 months for a ring. hell, each of my tension rings sits in a heat treating oven for 48 hours. I never lied about things taking a long time.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
if the forums were shut down, productivity would go through the roof
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade dude,
I feel a little sorry for ya. You have great goodies, but come on...all of these issues could have been avoided with better communication!
Best of luck. Any chance of coming back?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade, since you're here answering things -- what's the deal with the customer who bought a ring sizer from you just so she could tell her story in negative feedback (since removed), stating that you owed her close to $1000 in merch but she was past her Paypal file date?
It's great that you're here telling your side of things, but to be frank, if you haven't been honest about shipping times with your customers (as was stated in your feedback, that you said things were shipped but did not provide a tracking #, and they did not receive them), why should anybody believe you are being honest here? :( I'm not calling you a liar -- I'm just saying that the public perception of your integrity and customer service is everything in business, and threads like this:
http://forum.lush.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=88475&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=shadejewelry&start=1230
...do not help you any, whether you are legitimately in the right or not. The more stink is made about your Etsy closure, the more there is a spotlight on your past customer service issues, and the more text is recorded for Google to archive whenever anybody wants to type your name in. Maybe take a step back and let things die? That's not meant snarkily, it's an honestly trying-to-be-helpful suggestion.
You make beautiful things, and I hope you are super successful on ArtFire and all of these hiccups become blown away into the past, and do not resurface in the future. You are very charming, and have many friends, and I know you have a following that would go right to your own website if you wanted to go that way. You'll bounce back. :)
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Thanks Kieran.
Also, if you look at the two pages of feedback available through google cache, 5 of 13 and 6 of 12 feedbacks left for him for sales of rings mention lengthy delays and lack of communication, whether they are neg, neutral, or pos. that's just about 1/2 his feedback!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade mentioned in the forums that 95% of his income came from Etsy. So if Etsy is his "only" job, it seems weird that it should take him two months to finish a ring and get it to his customers.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
i've been on etsy , selling consistently for three years and never heard of/seen this bloke or shop until now.
if etsy is going to clean house there is a pretty awful seller who was featured, hasnt been mentioned here, doesnt do the forums and needs to go. she gets at least one negative or neutral a week. her lack of communication & lack of honesty about ship times has made me unable to use her products. she was just that crappy. and its not who you think.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
@forumrubbernecker
I did in fact apologize and refund when it was the appropriate thing to do.
_________
Your feedback should have read:
"Due to my error in understating my shipping times and lack of communication regarding delays, I have apologized and refunded the buyer. "
I didn't see that, so I'm gonna with "shade must have screwed up and not admitted he was wrong or try to fix it" as my final answer. Screwing up someone's wedding ring order is a huge screw up. no two ways about it. Since you are off Etsy, you do know you can tell your story now? Somewhere, on a blog, or whatever. I encourage you to do it.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Who is it, Oh Joy?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Ah, never mind, I've tracked down the owner of the missing $1000 myself.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:-u8LzF8D7HAJ:shadejewelryisshady.blogspot.com/+alethea+etsy+shadejewelry&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&
Not commenting either way -- simply providing more data for people to read and make their own minds up.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Etsy keeps telling us that they can't help us with people who have problems-- just "work it out" or "kiss and make up", so why are they getting all jacked up and going volcanic over this?
There's WORSE.
Etsy's customer service BLOWS: do not answer email, misrepresent stuff that is bogus by featuring it, applying TOUs arbitrarily-- what else? Ignoring blatant resellers, doing nothing about NPB.... it's late, I'm tired, but this whole thing really seems petty of whatever staff person decided to freak.
Looks to me like they caved on Shade because of vocal customers who threatened shit. The teens ran off to tell their mother, but mother wasn't there so they just shut Shade down.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
You may find this interesting. I know I did.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:-u8LzF8D7HAJ:shadejewelryisshady.blogspot.com/+alethea+etsy+shadejewelry&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I'm really sick of this mess. Lookit, people. Etsy would NOT kick off someone who was making them so much $$$ without a good reason.
Shade can say whatever he wants - whether it be truthful or not. And judging from his posts on the forums over the past few months, I'm disinclined to think that he's the most honest, upstanding member of the Etsy society that there ever was.
Etsy cannot defend itself and tell its side of the story. So we can gang up on Etsy all we want, but in the end we will never hear the 100% truth.
Goodbye shade. Improve your customer service and try to salvage your reputation that way.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
That's the attitude, Dagnabbit. Etsy Customer Service Blows, so to get even just rip off Etsy buyers and or give them rotten customer service, too. I like that attitude. Maybe your ass should be next. And maybe you should do some link clicking while you are on this subject. You may find it enlightening.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Someone on Etsy brought this to my attention and as the customer who left negative feedback for Chris, I would like to correct his first point above. Mainly, there is little to no truth in that statement; you might say it is full of "half truths, conjecture and lies". I sent the ring back to Chris for re-sizing as per his shop policies (the same policies which he has failed to adhere) and he never asked me to do otherwise. Yes, Chris generously did not charge me for the resizing, but this was after I had already waited beyond 28 business days (his maximum stated turnaround time). At NO POINT did I plead poverty and negotiate a lower price. In fact, during the point in time when Chris was withholding my rings and money until I removed my feedback (does this seem against the principle of customer feedback to anyone else?), I told Chris to keep the money in the hopes that he would finally send me the rings.
All Chris had to do to avoid this confrontation was communicate with me: he never told me he was backed up and if he had, this may have gone differently. Instead, I had to wait over a month to hear anything from him (close to three months from when I originally returned the ring) and by then, all he had to say was that he wouldn't send me anything until I removed my feedback. While my feedback has been posted, I have been contacted by a number of other frustrated customers, some of whom are dealing with far more serious transaction disputes with Chris (these buyers were unable to leave feedback because Chris' inability to communicate outlasted the 90 day expiration date for feedback). The common thread among all of us was his tactic of ignoring every attempt to communicate with him and when he does communicate, it is often dishonest (for instance, sending bogus tracking numbers for packages). Chris makes truly beautiful jewelry, but ultimately he seems in desperate need of a clearer sense of basic customer service and better business practices/ethics. I don't claim to understand all of the details surrounding the closure of his store, but this is my side of the story to Chris's self proclaimed "talk is cheap" post.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
ShadeJewelry is an immature titty baby who needs to get up of his parent's couch, out of their basement, and go and face the real world like a real man. He doesn't have a business bone in his corpulant body. And this is the guy everyone is rushing to defend.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Jeremy--in Chris' defense (and how I cringe at saying that), I believe the customer who "pleaded poverty" was someone else, not you. There was a negative feedback he had that got removed and I think it was related to that. I would not worry about all the people coming to Chris' defense, I really think they are looking at the numbers of negs and neutrals, and not at comments. Clearly you were not the only one who was unhappy.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Well, this alone is pretty horrible. Good riddance, I say.
________________________________________
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:-u8LzF8D7HAJ:shadejewelryisshady.blogspot.com/+alethea+etsy+shadejewelry&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&
Alethea, I got prices for you, I have 2 diamonds that I think you'll like, both are antique gems from the turn of the century, They are machine cut on the bottom, but are hand cut on the time. They are both really nice. one is 32 points, and is J color, SI-2 the appraisal value is 475. one is 37 points, and is J color, SI-1 the appraisal value is 525. I also have an un-appraised modern diamond, It's 37 point SI-1 f/g color, Great cut, it's about 4.7mm in diameter, just a little smaller then a 1/2 carat diamond. for the first diamond in a ring it would be 975 for the send it woudl be 1050 and for the third it woudl be 1400. that is the rings and all fees, and free domestic shipping. -Chris
17 February 2009 1:39am EDT
Alethea, If you buy it from me and in the time it takes for me to make it (2-3 weeks), if your situation improves, I can give you a refund in Canadian money and then you can repay me. Sound good? -Chris
8 March 2009 11:17pm EDT
Alethea, I am having a problem with paypal right now... I will be able to refund u next month. Your ring is being made soon and will be shipped to you as soon as possible. -chris
25 May 2009 10:23pm EDT
Hi Chris, Please let me know where you are at with the ring and the refund/repayment. Thanks, Alethea
11 June 2009 9:57pm EDT
Dear Chris, I really, really expect more from you than this. Your lack of communication is starting to tinge something that was supposed to be a one in a lifetime event with frustration. Given that you have been holding my $1100 american literally for months I really expect more. To be clear, at minimum I would like to know when the ring will be done and that you plan to allow me to refund/repay in advance, which I think would be reasonable given that you have been earning interest on my money all this time. I really don't want to enter into a more negative dialogue, but the utter silence since my last request has really upset me. Alethea
19 June 2009 10:42pm EDT
Honestly you are breaking a small piece of my heart and changing plans that we had for getting engaged this summer. Please make this better.
23 June 2009 11:43pm EDT
Please confirm that you are either refunding my money or shipping within the next 48 hours. As I called you on Monday with a similar deadline I expect this is reasonable. If I do not hear from you BY EMAIL with a clear explanation of what is happening I will be reporting you for non-delivery to etsy.
2 July 2009 9:25pm EDT
your ring is all done and I will have your tracking number tomorrow for you. -Chris
3 July 2009 4:15am EDT
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
forum rubbernecker, it looks likely that Chris is indeed referring to Jeremy with the "plead poverty" reference, as he refers to his customer as a "he" -- the $1000 other trouble is with a female customer. Unless there is yet another male customer, other than Jeremy, being referred to?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
let's get real. if there was any proof the item was mailed properly or that the customer(s) had been taken care of ethically,appropriately,LEGALLY, sir shade would have his shop up. any etsian knows those brooklynites dont take your shop down without a community outrage or two- malfeasance, something.
for those of you going on about re-opening the shop- how comfortable are you being associated with someone who seems to have at least 50% of their customers expressing dissatisfaction? any reasonable, logical, business person can distinguish between wanting to have a good friend on the forum vs. a sustainable business not tainted by allegations of misconduct. etsy is primarily a business venue. or do you care about selling at all? that doesnt mean this guy is bad or whatever it is a sound business decision.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade screwed over so many people he probably can't even keep them straight either.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
forum rubbernecker and Kieran: Thanks for clarifying and I may indeed be incorrect in my assumption that his first point was dealing with me, but I don't believe so. I am familiar with the customer whose negative feedback was removed (unless there has been more than one recently) and the details Chris provided above (the truthful details, that is) deal with my transaction, not theirs. Nonetheless, as a former customer of Shade, I hope my post speaks to some of the claims that he makes in his post. For instance, "all convos where answered within 24-48 hours"---this is complete and utter nonsense.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
It was pretty obvious there was more to it than Shade wanted to claim. And the pathetic whimpers and cries in the forums for him to come back is quite frankly, stupid. I'm glad thing are emerging which reveals what really happened and if anything Shade will learn a long hard lesson from this. If he doesn't he's an even bigger fool than I thought he was. I'm just sad for the people that are suffering from all of this.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
@oh joy!
no one has ever said that I never sent them rings, in fact I have insurance and DC on about 600 items that I have mailed int he last year for my etsy shops
please get your facts straight
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Jeremy, thank you for posting. More information is good so people can read and weigh things for themselves.
oh joy! Says:
August 6, 2009 at 8:36 am
let’s get real. if there was any proof the item was mailed properly or that the customer(s) had been taken care of ethically,appropriately,LEGALLY, sir shade would have his shop up. any etsian knows those brooklynites dont take your shop down without a community outrage or two- malfeasance, something.
for those of you going on about re-opening the shop- how comfortable are you being associated with someone who seems to have at least 50% of their customers expressing dissatisfaction? any reasonable, logical, business person can distinguish between wanting to have a good friend on the forum vs. a sustainable business not tainted by allegations of misconduct. etsy is primarily a business venue. or do you care about selling at all? that doesnt mean this guy is bad or whatever it is a sound business decision.
***
This is a brilliant post.
I've been shaking my head at things, frankly, because to me it seems really logical that for Etsy to close a shop of one of their QYDJ "golden boys", that was making them hundreds (maybe thousands) in fees every month, there had to be an unimpeachable reason for it.
Etsy's critics complain about Etsy's bottomline priority being the mighty dollar, and yet in this case that conviction is not being applied critically -- if it was simply a case of Etsy making money he would still have his shop... unless something came along that threatened their future money-making prospects in terms of more $$$ than he was making them in the short-term.
I like Shade, personally. I'm sure people are wondering or assuming I have a hate-on since I'm providing ammunition against him... but that is not the case. Shade as a person I like. Shade as a businessperson -- a businessperson who is in my own industry and whose actions could cause ME to lose sales if people are burned badly by small online jewellery makers -- different story.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade - all you have to do, then, is provide those people with the tracking # to prove that the items were mailed. That's it. Why can this not be done? If you say that you have and they are lying, then just post the tracking # here - and that way there is proof that you did infact provide the tracking # and that at least one of the customers who is here posting will receive that information.
It's really that simple.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
or do you care about selling at all?
__________
I don't think many people do and they're definitely not using their brains to think this one through.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade is finally going down in flames.
Even he can't keep up with the lies he
told different customers. Customers are now
coming out of the woodwork telling their side of
the story. I wish the legions of fans on Etsy would read
some of this - I think they might have a different opinion
of Chris after this. Chris - you have no way of backing up your
side of the story unless you can provide proof of diligent
convos and DC# or tracking on all your "lost" packages. I won't hold my breath...I'll probably pass out.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
no one has ever said anything about a lost package, this "lost package" bullshit just appeared out of no where.
what is going on is one person started a blog about this, and all of a sudden "customers" started showing up, when in fact some of them aren't my customers at all.
The defamation is all starting from one source......
so please, if your going to start saying shit about me, make sure your not basing your "facts" off bald faced lies started on the internet.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade, since you are still following these threads: If you are innocent, I have no doubt you will be eventually vindicated, and I look forward to the truth coming out fully.
As for me, I am unsure which party exactly is providing the "bald faced lies" -- the lion's share of refusal to take any real responsibility is coming from you, to be honest -- so I am simply basing my opinions (yep, just opinions) on the data at my disposal, gleaned from several sources including your Etsy feedback. I do feel that where there was smoke, there is now fire, and anyone who wishes to read your old feedback for themselves is welcome to contact me as I have the pages capped.
If you are innocent of these allegations I sincerely hope you are able to prove such to the right parties and your name is cleared. I would really, really like to be wrong.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
@Kieran
Thank you for being open minded, And thank you to anyone that is remaining open minded on this matter. I wish I could write up more details, but honestly I'm just too busy, I'm busy making rings, I'm busy taking care of customers, I'm busy working on my future projects.
all I'm going to say, is some of the people that are loudest on the subject are the loudest for no particular reason. If you read what is being written it reads like a long personal rant that woudl put a middle school bully to shame, I will not get personal about this, BUT when someone rants like a child having a tantrum, well it's about as believable as the rants of a child.
I'm trying to remain professional and run a decent business, and yes, there were some unhappy customers in my 2 years of selling on etsy. But honestly, any business with as many customers as I had (over 600) will have at least a few unhappy customers, it seems like I had 4 that where unhappy enough to leave me negative feedback, I never mislead any customers about my feedback, it's public information and customers can choice to use someone else on etsy if they dont' like it.
There has actually never been anyone that says I took there money and never gave them either money back or a ring...let me correct that, there is someone saying that is what happened, but they are just saying that because they have nothing better to say about a subject they know nothing about.
Any apologies, refunds, or business transactions between my and my customers are private information.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Thank you for addresing me, Shade, I appreciate it.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I can confirm that I posted the now-deleted blog that has been cited above. I started and removed this blog in an attempt to negotiate a return of my funds after purchasing a ring March 9 and not receiving in July. I also purchased a ring sizer in an attempt to leave feedback and that purchase was canceled. Some time after I filed a non-delivery report and still had not heard from Chris his shop was suspended. I have no idea if this action was taken in response to one or many complaints. At that time he finally decided to respond to the many convos I had sent trying to get the ring and then, because of the months long delay, a refund. Chris has now refunded my money in full. I have let etsy know that he has taken this step.
In my opinion the main problem was that after 90 days on etsy you can no longer leave feedback. Where there is no feedback, I question whether every seller has the motivation to complete the transaction. The feedback portion only reflects those customers who post (and I am assuming receive their goods) in the time frame. I am hoping that etsy will make this change down the road. For now, I will be buying offline.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Alethea, thank you for coming here and posting. I am glad to read that your money was refunded and I sincerely apologize for any discomfort my posting the link to your deleted blog may have caused you. Shade, good on you.
It saddens me that because of this you now feel safer buying offline, and my fear of that eventuality, not simply with you but with buyers in general, is exactly why I took such an active stance in this.
I would like to extend the offer here to you, since your rings were for your wedding, to make you a pair of custom rings myself completely free of charge so there is no shadow over your happy day. I have no idea whether or not you have found others to use in the meantime, and I do not work as Shade does in Titanium (only silver at the moment), but my skills and materials are yours if you would like them, as a gesture of good faith toward you from another jeweller who is primarily based online.
If you wish to take me up on this, please feel free to e-mail me to info (at) arcadian-dreams.com and we can discuss it further!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Thanks Keiran,
That is very thoughtful. I have made other arrangements but it was good to read your kind words and to see this blog. I did feel very alone when I realized that I was getting no response to my convos and I couldn't leave any feedback. I have since spoken to a number of individuals unhappy with this seller that gave me solace, and finding this site has also made me feel like there is a community out there when the normal safeguards fail. I do feel that this seller has the right to have the full story here, but only because this blog was brought to my attention and I think that is the right thing to do. It is not because I have gained any new respect for this seller or received any apology that would prompt forgiveness. I was heartened by what I perceived to be responsiveness from etsy and I wish you and other professional jewelry-makers on that site the best of luck. While this has been a long and at times frustrating journey for me, I hope that prospective customers will find confidence in the fact that there are many forums and support networks on the internet to reveal the truth of problems they are having with online purchases.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I hope from this - people realize to protect themselves when buying high end items. Always use a credit card to purchase anything online....when using paypal... Not a paypal balance. If things start going south after committing that much money to a etsy/ebay/anysite seller...chargeback thru paypal, AND the credit card purchased with. That always gets flaky sellers moving fast.. glad you got your money back ....but for those who havent, chargeback.
Had a similar situation a few years ago - no response from the seller - so I called up VISA, then started the paypal process..Money back!
I do steer from anything online that has that 20+day turn around production time. My FIL is a high end jewellery designer -for over 50 years- much time goes into his work...but he has tons of time for it and NO internet or other distractions.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Alethea, if you change your mind, please let me know -- and I hope someday you may decide to give us online jewellery-makers another go. I absolutely promise that not every experience you have will be like this one. Hugs to you, I know how frustrating this must have been and how helpless you must have felt.
I saw your feedback before it was removed, and you did not sound like a vengeful or "crank" customer to me... just someone frustrated, wronged, and trying so hard to be heard. I saw you, and I heard you, and I have done my best to advocate for you where I could. Best of luck in all things.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Well, now that he is set up on Junkfire, we will see what develops. I thought he was one of the cooler peeps on Etsy, what a chump I wuz.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
We've been making custom rings on Etsy for a few years now and we've had our run ins with Shade as sellers, not buyers. He contacted us under a different name, "clovenedhoof" before he ever opened his shop under the Shadejewelry name and told us he was a machinist and that he loved our work and that he was curious about certain techniques and could we tell him how we did them? (Um, no.) Only after he opened his shop and started some issues with us -he attempted to have one of our designs removed by Etsy saying we stole his intellectual property- and doing some digging did we realize that "clovenedhoof" and "shadejewelry" were the same person. Our listing was re instated after we had our lawyer draft a letter for us, lol. But we knew then that he really wasn't honest or at least didn't have a real feel for the Etsy community as far as working with and helping other artists. We began to feel like Etsy was a place where we had to compete and watch our backs rather than a community.
It is hard to be an Etsy seller and do a large volume of work, and with a certain number of sales you will have unhappy customers because it's inevitable. You just do your best to make people happy and move on. And personal life can intrude on business at times- we know this all too well. We have an advantage in that we're a couple and can offer one another support. I will admit that I (the "Lean" part of RobandLean) was kind of feeling sorry for Shade and all that was happening because I know there are two sides to every story and sellers do have to take steps to protect themselves, but after reading this, I don't really have any more sympathy.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
One can't always hold the tongue -- believe me, I know! But you've done a great job here, so give yourself a free pass the next time you really need to vent.
; )
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
forum rubbernecker, Bedazzled Condom, I wish I knew who you guys were so I could send you flowers of awesome.
goodkarma, great posts here.
Shade, I'm done (sportingly :) ) locking horns with you on facts and such, but forum rubbernecker has a good point here -- you really can't in good faith play the "it's private business" card at this point, when you've gone out of your way to involve so many people through in that business through AIM, Twitter, e-mail etc., know what I mean?
I, personally, would not advise a write-up. I would not advise any more talk on this, on any forum, at all, ever. Seriously, apply duct tape to mouth and mittens to typing fingers. If I were you I would be shutting up completely (that means to friends too), going to ground, letting it blow over, working on my products and changing my customer service practices so it never happens again. But that's just me :D
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
@robandlean
hello lean!
firs,t my old account was long before I was a seller, I was going ta use that account to sell but came up with SJ I made no attempt to hide my identity.
first, Yes, I did report you for ripping off one of my rings, and content from my description. I never received any notice form any lawyer on the matter, and etsy felt that the similarity between our items/descriptions was close enough to remove your listing. something they rarely do.
you actually sent me a fairly threatening letter if memory recalls, threatening to sue me for all sorts of stuff.
anyway, thanks for your support!
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I think the issue here is that of the "Facts" about this, about 3/4 are just totally made up, and are the result of a "whisper down the lane" mentality, also a "kick him when he's down" mentality. I've sold a lot and had a lot of happy customers, it seems like the focus is on 2 customers out of hundreds.
And honestly if someone left me a feedback that says "great ring long turn around" no one here actually knows what went on behind the scenes with said customer. The talk we had, the money I may have refunded, what ever happened to make someone overall happy enough with a transaction to leave a positive.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Etsy was required by law (the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) to remove the listing until we rebutted your claim, at which time they were happy to re-instate the listing.
I have a copy of the letter we sent here also... we didn't threaten to sue you at all, just asked that you be required to prove your claim.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Uh, Shade...I believe it was 4 negatives and 2 neutrals (not really happy neutrals either) if memory serves correct.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
well it seems like everyone here is focusing on 2 of those negatives
and BTW one of those negatives was from someone that bought a 5 dollar ring sizer, never paid, and left a negative before I could cancel the sale with etsy, back when it took a solid week to do that.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
That's because 2 of those negatives happen to be telling their side of the story so that everyone gets a chance to hear from both sides.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Dear shadejewelry.
Grow up.
Even your "positive" feedback mentioned numerous problems from numerous people.
Seriously, with every single post you make yourself look even more immature.
There is no way etsy would close down a person paying such high fees whom they featured without some VERY compelling evidence.
If a seller ripped me off or jacked me around for $1,000 bad feedback would be they least of their worries.
You are screwing with people and there is no excuse.
Grow up.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I understood that the 5 dollar ring sizer buyer bought that ring sizer just to be able to leave feedback because her previous negative to ShadeJewelry was deleted by Etsy.
What's disturbing here is the endless excuses, with no acceptance of any responsibility as a seller or as an adult. Just excuse after excuse, and denials and half-truths. The sad thing is that ShadeJewelry will learn absolutely nothing from any of this, and will continue to do business in exactly the same manner. Just.....oblivious.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
first thing
NO ONE was "ripped off"
to quote Alethea "Chris has now refunded my money in full. I have let etsy know that he has taken this step."
and Jeremy got his rings, and I even refunded him the money he paid for them.
that is all.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
@toonces
the ring sizer happened like 18 months ago, and was the only thing the person ever bought from me.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I just read this on closed threads. seems like a really reasonable perspective on the whole thing:
Molls said:
Wow. What's the allure of Shade Jewelry? It must be the drama of it all. His fans might best serve him by allowing him to go quietly so that he can salvage his professional reputation. The more people cry about the alleged injustice, the more attention they're bringing to the questionable areas of his business.
there doth be way more protesting than needed,surely~
put your nose down, clear up the issues and do good work and all of this will fall by the wayside
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Yeah, and it took from March to July before you refunded Alethea's money after NOT sending her the ring she ordered. That's an awful long time to hold onto someone's money in my opinion.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shade, I'm sorry, but what you're saying about your feedback is not accurate.
Your feedback captures state:
Feedback on July 1 = 2 neutral, 3 negatives
Feedback on July 3 = 2 neutral, 4 negatives
Feedback on July 5 = 2 neutral, 4 negatives
Feedback on July 11 = 2 neutral, 4 negatives
Feedback on July 23 = 2 neutral, 4 negatives
Feedback on July 25 = 2 neutral, 4 negatives
Feedback on July 29 = 2 neutral, 4 negatives
Feedback on Aug 3 = 2 neutral, 4 negatives
Alethea's negative -- the $5 ring sizer one -- was up and then shortly removed around the 16th. I know because of this thread a friend sent me:
http://bigbrightbulb.com/in-general/dont-believe-your-lying-eyes
...because I then went to look at your feedback, and there she was.
Jeremyash's negative was up on July 25th... but according to him he subsequently had to remove/change it as you blackmailed him with "change this feedback or no rings and no money". So no, none of the 4 negatives at the end of the month were Alethea's $5 ring sizer one (and in fact, unless JeremyAsh went back and left negative feedback again, there wasn't one from him, either -- clarification, Jeremy?).
Original JeremyAsh feedback left 7/01/09:
"Unfortunately, this review solely concerns the customer service provided by Shade Jewelry, but not the products themselves, as I have yet to receive my purchased rings. I returned an engagement ring because I ordered the wrong size (note: the original ring was of good quality and design). Chris received the ring on April 24, as well as an order for an additional ring: this was close to 50 business days ago, well beyond his stated turnaround time. During the initial phase when Chris was semi-responsive to emails, he told me that he made the rings (around six weeks ago), but now he has not returned a SINGLE email or phone call for close to a month. To emphasize, I have filed a non-delivery report with Etsy and more recently a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, yet still no response. I finally got a hold of him a few days ago and he told me he had shipped the rings that day and would send the tracking number. No package has arrived nor has he sent the tracking number despite several email and phone requests. These are simply dishonest business practices and beyond poor customer service. I chose to buy a handmade engagement ring from Shade Jewelry to support local artisans, but now I have no indication that I will ever receive these rings or a refund. I would STRONGLY caution against buying from this seller. His communication (if he actually responds) is dishonest and he doesn't adhere to his own shop policies. Given this second-rate customer service, I would suggest customers make deposits on rings instead of paying the full price upfront: I have paid too much money and have nothing to show for it. I may get married before my fiance has an engagement ring... "
Like I said -- I have caps. Public record. Just trying to find out the truth.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
ShadeJewelry Says:
August 6, 2009 at 8:22 pm
@toonces
the ring sizer happened like 18 months ago, and was the only thing the person ever bought from me.
***
Alethea purchased a ring sizer from you in order to tell her story in negative feedback recently -- feedback up as of the 16th of this month or so. Do mean there was ANOTHER person who bought a ring sizer like 18 months ago, too? Clarification needed. :)
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
(by "this month" I meant July, naturally. HURR DURR is late and screencaps are making me go buggy :D )
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:48 PM
ShadeJewelry Says:
August 6, 2009 at 8:09 pm
well it seems like everyone here is focusing on 2 of those negatives
and BTW one of those negatives was from someone that bought a 5 dollar ring sizer, never paid, and left a negative before I could cancel the sale with etsy, back when it took a solid week to do that.
***
If you are talking about the 18 month ago ring sizer incident, and a negative feedback left from THAT way back when, then cool cool. :) I apologize, I misinterpreted and thought you were talking about Alethea's ring sizer purchase.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I'm not talking about Alethea at all
first, the neutral on 06/03/08 was someone pissed there ring wasn't delivered on a federal holiday. they bought it Thursday, it was mailed Saturday AM and got there Tuesday, not Monday, it was memorial day.
the negative feedback I'm referring to was left 8/19/08 I guess a year ago, not 18 months
I have records to.......
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Etsy allows Shade's other store to stay open. Unfucking believable. Now he is BrinkJewelry.
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=7175645
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Records to what?
Anyway, statement still stands. Just think, if Alethea's and Jeremy's feedbacks hadn't been removed, and they'd left the feedback they wanted to leave (barring time expiry and alleged blackmail of not refunding or returning merchandise unless positive feedback was left), it seems to me that you would have had 6 negs instead of just 4 at the end there. *shrug*
It's good that you've squared things away with them now, though.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
At any rate, that's the end of the cards in my hand. Jeremy, the offer of replacement rings to hopefully not leave a sour taste in your mouth about buying jewellery online/on Etsy extends to you as well. :) My info is above if you choose to take me up on it.
Shade, GG and good luck. :)
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Just admit it Shade-you have so many fuck ups and so many unhappy customers that even you can't keep them straight.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
NOT directed at kieran
this is ending up in a circular argument, with multiple people going around trying to figure out and debate "what does this positive feedback mean" or "how many negs should shade-jewelry have" it's a very futile effort.
the simple fact is:
Jeremy and Alethea came in here, and spoke there side. and honestly, I'm glad they cleared up some of the things being said.
now that being said, both of them got there money back end of story, end of transaction (Jeremy even got his ring resized free and a wedding ring free).
any business is going to have pissed off customers, it's inevitable part of business. the problem is, when you deal with customers in a private manner, and then have people that dont' know the first thing about it try to figure it all out based on the "facts" presented by someone else.
the ONLY first hand accounts are Alethea, Jeremy, me and any records online AKA feedback. anything else that people are saying, aren't facts, they are something.... ranging from lies, rantings, to educated guesses.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I agree, Shade. Honestly, at this point, the information is out there -- lies, truths, opinions, everything in between. Everybody can figure it out from here.
People who have been wronged have been refunded/satisfied. Mistakes have been admitted. It isn't a perfect situation but I'm willing to let the damn dead duck rest in peace at this point, myself. My priority here has never been to excoriate Shade, simply to unearth a bigger picture, advocate for potentially wronged buyers, and see that the reputation of online jewellery sellers/Etsians is buffered as well as I could. I am as happy as I'm gonna be. ;)
I think you are an incredibly talented artisan -- always have -- and things can totally get better for you from here.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
@kieran
aside from what Alethea and Jeremy said, about 90 percent of the things being said are very inaccurate. and I think that that is starting to come out.
Again, I'll readily admit that I made mistakes, I'm only human, but in the end, the mistakes where taken care of the best I could given the situations.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
What I find most interesting about all of this is that Shade says he does "not have the time" to defend the accusations against him by providing details of what happend with Etsy or even tracking numbers as requested. And yet he has the time to make seventeen posts on this blog some of them ranging up to 150 words saying that everyone is lying, making up things about him, ganging up on him, and so on. Interesting that he took the time to completely explain an incident with Rob and Leanne that took place over two years ago having nothing to do with this current incident. He sounds like the politician that says "I would love to explain everything but my attorney wont let me" except he is using "being too busy" as an excuse.
If 95% of my income came from one source and I was falsely accused of fraud or anything similiar, I would be singing from the rooftops to tell my side. I would not let it rest until I was vindicated if I was innocent. And I would most certainly explain to a jury of my peers-other Etsy sellers because we have all experienced difficult customers, unhappy customers, problems with Etsy admin, etc...who better than us to understand if indeed he was being railroaded? but the opposite is also true...who better than us to call "bullshit" if the explanation doesn't hold water? Hence, the lack of a complete explanation. I have no proof of anything and dont know Shade from my next door neighbor but I will say that when a person is faced with openminded people willing to listen to their side and the response is "I'm too busy to give my side" then I call bullshit. I'm too busy to open junk mail but I am never too busy to salvage my professional reputation if it is being harmed malciously and without reason.
Many people here have flat out said that they were willing to withhold judgement in order to hear Chris's story. Again and again he responds by simply denouncing those who have spoken here. And I quote "anything else that people are saying, aren’t facts, they are something…. ranging from lies, rantings, to educated guesses." He spends alot of energy and time telling us that he is an innocent victim and selectively answering certain questions but avoiding the ones of substance that could prove him innocent.
I came into this openminded. Peop like to say that where there is smoke, there is fire. In my experience, sometimes where there is smoke, there is only strawberry jello. But in this case, I can see big orange flames everywhere. And I dont need to be burnt by them to know that they are fire.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
@goodkarmasoaps
the issue is that I still have rings I need to make, and I have a lot I need to do, my main selling site (etsy) is no more, so I'm reeling to get myself back up and running. and this week was already a bad week, I have family visiting.
having income and taking care of customers is more important to me than this is.
If I took time off to write up a detailed explanation as I want to, I woudl slip in my making of rings, and I feel that woudl be bad.
there will be a write up on this, but right now I simply cant.
I'm writing this from my laptop in my shop, as I'm waiting for a ring to cool off after being heat treated, and am simply relying to this as I have time.
for my "official write up" I will want to sit down and really write up something
also, I'm not accusing EVERYBODY of lying or being inaccurate, but certain sources of information on this matter are WAY off.
And I have on numerous times in this talk said that I made mistakes.
I'm not saying I'm the victim of my customers,
What I'm unhappy with is the way this was handled by etsy, which no one here has ANY idea about, even my customers (Jeremy and Alethea), the dialog was between me and etsy alone (sorta) no one here has ever came close to it.
I also feel a bit of a victim of the people that have taken things I've said in the past, (flat out jokes) and twisted them into personal attacks, when they where NEVER personal and just kinda my way of being a bit self deprecating. Also the focus on one micro detail when there is a lot more to this whole thing that anyone knows.
If you want to pass judgment that I'm a bad business person, or bad at customer service, that is fine you have been presented facts, and some sides to the story. but it seems to be that there are more then two sides to this, there is the truth, which people like Jeremy, Alethea, and I have stated. and then there are the "sides of the story" presented by other people, it seems like there are about 5 running ideas as to what happened. but the personal attacks, and the lies about me, both my personal life and my business are what hurt, and what makes me feel victimized. I feel like I'm in middle-school again and I'm the kid with the thick glasses again.
And I'm fairly sure that even if I did a detailed write up, presented facts, presented e-mails, I'm sure it would be dissected, and torn apart.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Dear Chris, I am glad you appreciate my post and you are free to quote me of course. A personal apology on this forum for ignoring my convos and deleting my negative review would be appreciated as thanks for the fact that I have gone out of my way to clarify the facts as they now stand.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
"any business is going to have pissed off customers, it’s inevitable part of business"
Bullshit.
You will have some unhappy customers, maybe, some not overly thrilled customers, perhaps, but "pissed off" customers are only "inevitable" if you run your business as if a arrogant, non-responsive, evasive dolt is behind the wheel.
I have to ask, have you gotten any actual sex out of this bonanza of attention or is all the Etsy penis stroking purely digital in nature?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
@alethea
I tried to reply to your last convo to you on etsy, but my convos where getting wonky because of having to send out so many at once.
But that being said, I fully apologize to you, and I woudl further like to thank you for being understanding with me, and for coming here and giving your side of the story.
thank you very much!
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
And for heaven's sake, once and for all, maybe Etsy handled it the way they did because as you just pointed out it was them having to deal with your customers. Do you think we believe for even a minute that Etsy never talked to these people, that some how trouble afoot was just moonbeamed over to them by fairies or something and so they skipped talking to the injured parties and instead went right to you? Hell, even here all you have done is insult and drag through the mud the same buyers who pay your fricking salary with not a word of apology to them or an admittance that you did anything wrong. It's all them and Etsy's fault.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
(I have a spare "through" up there if anyone needs one. Just sayin'. ;) )
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Ummm...convos do not get "wonky" chris because you have a lot going out at one time. I have more sales (way more) than you and have never had that problem. Give me a break.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
@interesting
when you send more than 10 convos an hour etsy's convobot kicks in I was trying as hard as possible to not have that happen
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
@shade - That only happens if your convos are exactly the same, as in a form letter. But if you are really convoing DIFFERENT people about different matters, than the good ole' spambot doesn't do that. But of course you know that.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
@interesting
I was sending out form letters.....
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
you seriously should know better with the amount of experience you had. c'mon.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
pussdaddy,
I was sending form letters...
the first night I sent out about 12 in a row and tripped the convo bot.
So I had to request them to lift the limit and then I went slowly from there. I had to send out a form letter to all my nearly 500 customers, and other people.
if you want, I can give you a copy of the form letter.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
goodkarma Says:
August 7, 2009 at 1:28 am
And by the way…the “former methhead” comment that you made on Twitter about Pussdaddy hasn’t won you any additional friends. In fact, we are all still wondering how you have time for namecalling
the reason for that comment is her blog posts read like a break up letter between 7th grader
to quote her
"ShadeJewelry is an immature titty baby who needs to get his fat ass up off his parent's couch, out of their basement, and go out and face the real world like a real man. No wonder his step-dad can't stomach him. He doesn't have a business bone in his corpulant body."
none of that is true......
and I say wow she's a former meth-head, is because she shows all the classic symtoms of someone that used that drug for years. although I am not a drug user, I have people in my close family that are or were. and they where never the same. it been shown to cause permanent damage to your brain, and she's showing the signs of that damage in this personal attack on me.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
@ interesting
I did know better that is why I went slowly and made sure not to trip it
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
This is way better than over in Etsy's forums!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
well, convos are not being 'overused' when they're not used at all. better to reply and keep people updated than not talk to them at all. i might add i also personally email my customers a thank you to their email address too via their paypal receipt just in case they don't use convos. that way i've covered all of my basis and know my customers can contact me whenever they need something. it's never failed me.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
When it gets really busy I easily send 20 convos a day (one right after the other) thanking customers who have bought something or have a question. It doesn't take that much time to create a basic letter but change the name every time depending on the person you are talking to so the spambot doesn't catch you. You only have to change 1 or 2 words to escape the bot.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
This makes ninetten posts here from Shade, five on PussDaddys blog and countless more on Twitter and Esty. The third from last was almost 400 words. It makes it difficult to believe that you dont have time to write the "detailed explanation letter". Why not save your energy for that so you can clear your name? The truth doesn't take alot of time, it's iusually straighforward. Lies include more details than necessary but the truth...well, most of us know it when we see it. So why not stop posting here and write the letter you promised? However, seeing how prolific you've been in the past 24 hours, it shouldn't even take that long to write the letter. We'll be waiting.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
"“ShadeJewelry is an immature titty baby who needs to get his fat ass up off his parent’s couch, out of their basement, and go out and face the real world like a real man. No wonder his step-dad can’t stomach him. He doesn’t have a business bone in his corpulant body.”
none of that is true……"
Really? None of it?
Let's see..... immature, check. Titty baby, check. Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.
Fat? unknown, but seems to spend a LOT of time sitting on his ass so I would guess "wide."
LIves with mommy and step-daddy, check, perhaps not on the couch but certainly not on his own like a grown man should.
Has problems with step-daddy, check. See Etsy forums for all the nauseating details.
Has problems running a business, BIG FAT RED CHECK MARK AFTER THIS ONE, BUCKEROO.
I would say the ex-meth head is right on the money.
You're just too fucking thick to be introspective or you would understand that This IS Your Life.
(BTW, I would like to say KUDOS GRANDE to anyone who has the guts to kick such a pernicious and evil habit like meth and live to tell and thrive. You have my utmost and sincere admiration and respect.)
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Kieran, you are incredibly classy! Thoughtful posts like yours should be a requirement for any heated issue.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
And by the way...the "former methhead" comment that you made on Twitter about Pussdaddy hasn't won you any additional friends. In fact, we are all still wondering how you have time for namecalling when you've got that explanation letter to write. Pussdaddy is an admitted former drug user and so is Betty Ford, Kitty Dukakis and a whole host of well known now productive people including myself and probably people who are reading your posts. I fail to see how someones past drug use from ten years ago has any bearing on what you have been accused of doing and much more recently. Give me a reformed drug addict over a practicing liar and cheat any day.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
post number 92 by goodkarmasoaps pretty much sums up how i feel about all this. Well said.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I don't send convo's-instead I use the "message to buyers" box.
People signing up to purchase for the first time wouldn't even know or care what a "convo" is used for. Also, they may not log into Etsy for a long period of time to check if a convo was ever sent. But when they receive their receipt-which they'll most likely print out-I clearly thank them for purchasing from me, I let them know that I will be shipping the item to the address from Paypal by 2:00p.m the next business day, I give them the option of changing their shipping address by a certain time frame and I let them know how to contact me if they have any questions-See? simple. The convo system is overused in my opinion.
Sidenote for Shade:
This could have all been avoided if you'd just put in your listing that each ring would take up to three-six week to make before shipping due to the customization process. Every major online jewelry store(Sundance, Twistonline, Fragments) does this. This would have given you plenty of time.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I've been selling online for over 7 years. I have never once had a "pissed off" customer.
Some have been disappointed because shopping online can be difficult since you can't try on or touch the item. I accept returns happily and refunded as soon as I received the merchandise back.
Holding on to $1,000 for months is bullshit. You were wrong and your attitude is worse. I don't care what the details are.
You can show me all the "proof" in the world, but you still jacked people around.
If you can't finish the jewelry in a timely manner then you should refund immediately. If you can't keep you business running in efficient time frames then find something else to do. Jacking around customers because you don't have the maturity to accept your own lack of business acumen is bullshit. The fact that you can't just admit when the situation is too much and that you can't deliver is bullshit. Screwing with people's weddings is beyond bullshit.
You give online sellers a bad name. Shame on you.
Oh, and grow up.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
"I was sending out form letters….."
Dumb as a bag of hammers and most likely staying that way.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Chris, I recognize that you seem to be trying to make things somewhat right, but I definitely do see that in your feedback, 1/2 the feedback left for ring sales say you were very slow and uncommunicative. Yes, everyone is up in arms about the negatives and the neutrals, but it's obvious you had more than one unhappy customer who did not leave a negative.
And I know you believe that you have not done anything wrong, and that, I think, is your biggest problem. I do look forward to reading your write up, as I think saying "oh it's private", will only foster more rumour and speculation.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Shade says he has no time to answer the question yet he continues to post a reply to just about every person here. Shade left etsy without a fight because he knew he was wrong.
Shade I know people make mistakes this is perfectly fine, however your feedback was not to a intelligent buyers liking. I would have never bought from you because of the feedback. You have bad communication when it comes to customers not etsy forums. Ever heard the expression stick your hand in a hole get bit by a snake once that the snakes fault. You do it again its your fault. You had more than one bad feedback. That means that is a practice that you have not responding to buyers. Some of your good fb said you had bad communication. I don't believe these people had it out for you shade. You don't communicate with buyers. But you do communicate in the esty forums. Lets not forget that.
Also you cannot withhold someones money and their product. I don't care what they have done and what feedback they have left you. That is stealing. You owe the customer their money back or the product. Point blank. If you did not want to negotiate any money then you can refund them, not hold both money and product.
If your rings take a long time to make fine. They are beautiful and I can see how they would take lots of time. At the same time if you tell a customer 3 weeks to ship out and it has been 5 weeks with little to no communication then you set yourself up for the fall. Communication is the key, talk to the buyer and get them their things asap. You cant have the attitude fuck you this takes a long time you wait on me. Without customers you will be nothing. Hopefully you have learned from your ''mistakes'' and not fuck up on your next website. You want people to hear the name ''Shadejewelry'' and think ''oh the guy with the pretty rings''. You don't want people to hear your name and think ''oh the guy who doesn't ship shit and doesn't communicate''.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Aw, JK, thanks. Not a word that usually describes me to be honest (as soon as I read your kind words, I immediately thought "there are, like, 873 people now reading this who are poised to post links to me behaving in decidedly vulgar and unclassy ways"). ;)
I *have* tried to keep it above the belt as much as possible in this particular issue, though, and I think that's the kind of thing you're referring to -- so thank you. Taking an active role on this end of things certainly didn't win me any friends, but it was important to me, for several reasons, to do so.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
ShadeJewelry Says:
August 6, 2009 at 11:58 pm
@ interesting
I did know better that is why I went slowly and made sure not to trip it
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
This shit doesn't even make any sense. First you are having convo issues because you send out form letters, then you say you went slowly so as not to trip it up. Which is it? I told you I had a bullshit detector. Please, just stop while you are still behind. See, people who are not lying tell consistent stories. Unless they are telling stories to begin with, because then they can't keep them straight.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I am disgusted that PussDaddy's past addiction, notice it is in the past, was even brought up. That is the most disgusting thing that has been said thus far.
It is proof of a lack of intellect that one had to stoop to ten year old news for a comeback.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Shit detector? No, just a vocal misanthrope. Sad, negative, and too much time on her hands.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I've never read Shade's feedback, so had no clue all of this was going on..and now can't since his store is gone..is there a cached version of it somewhere?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
The issue is that there are plenty of shops will lots of negative feedback, more than 60%, and they are left alone. Regardless of the individual case here, it's obvious that Etsy Staff pick and choose arbitrarily. They don't do quality control and could not care less about it, but if they want to spank someone they will do so without due process: that's the point.
If there is a due process in place, which I seriously doubt, it isn't followed. Anarchy is cool when you are a teenager.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
ugh, misanthrope is right. i'll return when the fur-or dies down
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Just got back from a two-week holiday in the UK. Is all this for real or should I put it down to jet lag?
Blimey. 0_o
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Not to add fuel to a dying down fire, but there more dissatisfied customers in the woodwork still trying to get some satisfaction than the record shows.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
one more of his screwed customers, never got any form letter, won't reply to any emails, but I get to watch him on twitter play with the cash I gave him.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I know of a certain Etsy favorite who has 31 negatives and 62 neutrals that SHOULD have been negatives. Her shop is empty now, but it's obvious she hasn't been banned.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I ordered rings from Chris on the 5th of july. He said they would be done and then boom, he was kicked off of etsy. I spent the next few days DEFENDING HIM and now, after all of this time, I get scammed. Paypal has sided in my favor, however was unable to recover my funds.
I need my rings for this fall because I am renewing my wedding vows.. I really want my rings.
I sent him several messages to his email and artifire. He has 7 days and I am going to the police.
"Improve your customer service and try to salvage your reputation that way." as someone has said..
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
What Still trying says is true. There are more in the woodwork, because some have emailed me.
PussDaddy
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I am another customer of Shade Jewelry's who has most likely been screwed over as well. He does NOT reply to emails/convos or any kind of communication. On the off chance that he does, it's usually with some kind of empty promise of shipping the order in the next couple days, but it never happens. If he can't get the rings made as they are ordered, why doesn't he just tell the customer that and refund the money? Or at least give the customer a realistic idea of the time frame from the beginning. I placed an order with Shade Jewelry months ago, for a ring that was intended to be a wedding ring in a ceremony that will be taking place next month. Now, it looks like the ring we ordered probably does not and will not exist and we will have to scramble to find another one. We, like one of the previous posters, wanted to buy our wedding rings from independent artists and not big jewelry companies. Shady business like this really messes things up for artists and small companies who DO have their acts together, because they encourage the kind of thinking and mistrust that prevents people from buying things online, especially from independent artists. It's really quite unfortunate.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Shade-Jewelry/90063232454
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Give me his last name, I have friends in the police department in Cherry Hill.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Chris ScumBag Anderson
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Thanks. I'll convo you via etsy when I get the addy.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Wow, I'm learning alot here, etsy should be smarter about picking their favorites!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
no kidding...
One thing is for sure, Chris knows how to run a business...
INTO THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
hey addie, you charged back through pay-pal the day after I left etsy because I told you to knock it off..... now your trying to get attention from it. I have NO money from you, and that means I have NO legal obligation to give you ANYTHING. again, let me repeat this....
addie bought rings form me then filed a claim with her credit card and got her money back. so I will not be making her rings, since I have no money form her.
or does that make me a bad business owner?
Call the police, I will provide them to documentation from the charge back, and they I will file a police report for filing a false police report.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
also addie, your husband will crush my skull.... threatening me with violence, sounds like a threat, I will report that to your police department.You at this point are just seeking attention and your getting it,
but I have no money from you, and that means no rings. I'm pretty sure that's how business works.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
So I just did a little checking on my pay-pal account.
you filed your claim on 8/16
that same day the money ($145.35) was removed from my account
The claim on pay-pal shows that you have your money back.
so again, I'm really not sure what you will tell the police
"I bought something from a big bad seller, and then I got my money back from him within 24 hours of requesting it, and now I just want something...."
and again, if you do that I will report your threat against my life.
and also, saying the things you are saying is called libel, since they have no basis in the truth, although not a criminal matter, it is a civil matter, and if you continue I will pursue it.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Paypal did NOT GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK. The case was closed yesterday! You had ten days to respond and you didnt!! I got nothing in return! No rings and no money! Check your paypal..
that is of course, the one you ABANDONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Hello Addie Lovingood,
After careful review, we have concluded our investigation of the Buyer
Complaint described below.
We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery
of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.
Please know that we will make our best effort to recover the funds in
question if they become available in the seller's account in the future and
will take appropriate action against the seller. Such action may include
issuing a warning, a temporary restriction, or terminating the account.
Keep in mind that PayPal uses a number of factors to determine when to take
action, including member complaints. Due to privacy laws, we cannot discuss
the details of any action taken. We hope you understand our policy and that
it assures you that you are safe using PayPal.
PRETTY SURE THAT MEANS THAT I GOT NO MONEY BACK,.... CHRIS, CAN YOU READ?!!?!?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
And what do you mean you "will not be making my rings".. the day before you left etsy you said "they are almost done"
wtf Chris?? And how can you say I filed a claim the day after you left etsy? I filed a claim on the 16th of August.. after you refused to respond!!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
eyeneedmyweddingrings:
No need for physical threaths, that's even more dumb than Shady being a poor business man!!!
Tori, dont send the address. Let the police handle it!
Shady, step back, don't come to forums spending your pressious time here, there, everywhere when you really need to focus on your PRESENT customers.
With negative feedback on etsy and here about how customers think you should act better, then DO it. Period. Eat the sand, that is what any GOOD business man would do.
You have pretty things, but it will eat you in the butt, if you don't step up to the plate and change your customer service.
my 2 cents
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
well PayPal took the money out of my account, and is showing the money was sent to you. I can give you the refund transaction number if you want.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
So yes, Chris, you now have 6 days and then I am going to the police. And yes, tell the police that after these 6 days are up, if a resolution isn't found, not only will I file a report, I do truly believe my husband will come to NJ and track your pathetic ass down. The police do NOT CARE about petty internet threats. Go ask them. You disgust me. I stuck up for you.. I defended you MORE THAN ANYONE. You know, as well as I do, that no refund was made. You are really really nasty, Chris. You really are. How do you sleep at night!?!?
~Addie
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
shady, instead of answering to posts in here, you should answer them in private! A thing you should have done before all this started.
you just made a post. Obviously you have some time on your hand, email to your CUSTOMER NOW!
and privately to "eyeneedmyweddingrings" NOW....you can forward the letter from paypal stating the refund!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
ahh the internet.... where you can say any crazy shit and repeatedly threaten anyone all you want with not regards for the law... how Silly of me to forget.
again, I have triple checked this, I see your transaction paying me, and the transaction of the money being returned to you.
You did defend me, sorta, but most of what you where saying where borrowed facts from second hand information, that is why I asked you to stop. But I thank you for what "defense" you provided.
and obviously, It's 5:38 AM and I'm awake, so, apparently I don't sleep well at all, but then again that has to do with caffeine consumption.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Hello Addie Lovingood,
After careful review, we have concluded our investigation of the Buyer
Complaint described below.
We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery
of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.
Please know that we will make our best effort to recover the funds in
question if they become available in the seller's account in the future and
will take appropriate action against the seller. Such action may include
issuing a warning, a temporary restriction, or terminating the account.
Keep in mind that PayPal uses a number of factors to determine when to take
action, including member complaints. Due to privacy laws, we cannot discuss
the details of any action taken. We hope you understand our policy and that
it assures you that you are safe using PayPal.
-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------
Seller's Name: shade jewelry LLC
Seller's Email: cheesexlova@hotmail.com
Seller's Transaction ID: 0XA31594N4886190W
Transaction Date: Jul 5, 2009
Transaction Amount: -$150.00 USD
Invoice ID: 12620391
Your Transaction ID: 0D873492TY284125C
Case Number: PP-766-271-552
Buyer's Transaction ID: 0D873492TY284125C
NO REFUND WAS MADE..
Stop lying. Get your head out of your ass. Please.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Where are your facts, Chris? I know you're lying.. you know you're lying. Get it together.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I hope you have a good attorney, Chris. This isnt about $150.00 or a set of rings anymore. It's about you. If it costs me $15,000 in attorney fees to get you, I will. Because SOMEONE needs to teach you a lesson, and that someone is going to be me.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
here is a print screen of the reversal
http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/clovenedhoof/?action=view¤t=addie.jpg
they removed the money form my account, if you don't have the money back take it up with PayPal or your credit card company. I don't have any of your money.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
well addie, I'm sorry your taking this personal, but I'm really not sure, why, your a business owner, if a customer bought something from you, got there money back then slandered you all over the internet, how would YOU feel?
if you spend 15,000 in lawyer fees, it will be funnier when I counter sue for my lawyers fees, and for the damage you are causing by your unfounded accusations, here, my-space, facebook, and on etsy. you have before accused me of stalking you and "gettign my IP address on your computer"
but BTW in Pennsylvania, and most states your lawyers fees can not exceed the the actual amount of the case. But a counter-suit has no maximum.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
and you are right, I was wrong you waited a little bit after I left etsy, but that makes little difference.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
and it's funny how in order to make me look bad on face-book you comment on my page, then log into your husbands account to agree with yourself and then re agree with yourself.
your a strange one.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
If I had used a credit card I would have been able to get my money back and paypal even told me that. Why would they bother sending me that letter and informing me that no refund could be made if what you are saying is in fact true? It doesn't even make any sense, Chris. If you arent worth your word, you arent worth shit. I am keeping my word and giving you STILL the 6 days. You still have 6 days to make it right. You can lie all you want, but paypal, and you.. and I know the truth. No refund was EVER made. In fact, paypal has also informed me that you had not so much as logged on to that account for over 3 weeks.
Get your shit together, Chris. Get off your moms couch TODAY and go get an attorney.
I am really not kidding.
If a refund had been made, I wouldn't even really care, but since you have dragged this out for so long, with no real resolution or customer service, you leave me no choice but to go to the police.
As I said before, it's not even about the money or the rings. You're screwing with very sacred ceremonies when dealing in this line of work, yet, you don't care.
And for you information, I have been given refunds through paypal before, and I have also GIVEN refunds before, and just so you know, refunds are made in full. No fees are taken out. Everyone can see through your lies.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Shade,
That link you provided stating that it shows where you refunded EYENeed doesn't show anywhere that you actually refunded the buyer--all it says was that the hold on the funds in your account was removed...and that the reversal was "cancelled". That's not a refund.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Thank you, Karina. I wouldnt lie about a refund anyway. Im not shady like that.. check my feedback, it's beyond 100% +++ :)
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I just got off the phone with PayPal. they say this was a refund.
so I really don't know what more I can do, since you have your money back and PayPal confirmed it.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
I'de really like to point out that I am not a con artist, ad no one has "been a victim" the only person EVER to claim to not get a ring from me is addie.
every other "victim" was the brain child of someone who was never a customer of mine.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
So why were you kicked off Etsy in the first place?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
@notinvolved
the e-mail that etsy sent me was blank in that spot.
I tried to e-mail them about it several times and they never responded. So I'm not 100 percent sure, and no one else is 100 percent sure (since they aren't privy to the actual facts).
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Well, I called paypal as well, and they said that not only was it NOT refunded, that it probably never would be and that lying about it is a crime/I should continue pursuing it with the law. And I will.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Oh, and Chris, since you SAY I was given a refund, ask paypal why they "accidentally" sent me an email saying WHY I WAS NOT GIVEN A REFUND..
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Addie said:
"I cant tell you how many people on etsy have offered me free rings, discounted rings, or a donation toward new rings for my ceremony. ALL of these people would not offer such pricey “gifts” if they thought for ONE second that I was lying."
It's lovely that people are being so kind to you, Addie. I'm not sure if you saw it above, but you can add me to that list of those willing to donate rings for your ceremony if it comes to that.
You are absolutely right that if I thought you were lying I wouldn't have made the offer.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Staying completely out of this, I did just want to point out if a chargeback was made through the Credit Card company then Paypal has nothing to do with the refund.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Shadejewelry Says:
I’de really like to point out that I am not a con artist, and no one has “been a victim” the only person EVER to claim to not get a ring from me is addie.
every other “victim” was the brain child of someone who was never a customer of mine.
________________________
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Really I do. With all the different people---some on Etsy, some here, some on private blogs, and some on PussDaddy's blog saying the same kind of stuff...that they ordered rings from you and never received them...or that your customer service was severly lacking...or that they asked for refunds and never got them...or that they tried to file a claim through Paypal but found out your account was quickly closed...These are all reputable and established Etsy members who are familiar to a great deal of us on the forums.
Are you seriously saying that every single one of those people are lying? What would be their motive to make all of this up? If there weren't any basis to the claims being made, why would Etsy have removed you, since, as you have said in the past that you have paid them thousands and thousands of dollars in fees, and it would be beneficial for them to have kept you on?
I've never dealt with you on a seller-customer basis, Chris, and I have never been privy to your feedback or known about all of these issues until everything came to light after Etsy.com let you go. So I cannot make any personal comments about your level of professionalism as a seller. All I can advise, however, is to perhaps take the opportunity that has been presented to you NOW, and make ammends with your buyers to salvage your business reputation, pick yourself up, and move on as a designer with a clean slate and clear conscience.
Success as an artist depends greatly on word-of-mouth. Remember that word can go either way...positive and negative.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Paypal seller accounts are linked to bank accounts, debit cards and/or credit cards. Take those sources away and the buyer is screwed. There would be no way for paypal to draft that money from Shade and refund the buyer. Unless she paid with an actual credit card then that would be no help at all either, anon.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Shade I'm sure you'll get a chance to tell it to a judge in a criminal court of law. You better start gathering all of your evidence.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
well pay-pal can take the money out of a pay-pal account if there is money in the account, which there is, I clearly showed they removed the money from my account.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Sometimes I forget,
if they say it on the internet it must be true!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Just wondering, is Shadejewelry planning on honouring purchases people already made through etsy?
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
I'm honoring all purchases made on etsy, there is NO reason not to. contact me at my e-mail address if you got a convo on etsy from me with it, or use the contact form on www.brinkjewelry.com
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
I'm an Etsy customer of shadejewelry that placed an order in early july for 2 rings, one of which is for my wedding next month. Got on etsy over the weekend to send a convo to check how the order was progressing, only to discover the seller was no longer listed.
Bit of googling lead me to this blog.
Now I know there are 2 sides to every story, and I'm not taking sides. But I've got to say that it is poor form of etsy to shut down shadejewelry when they still had orders made on etsy unfilled.
It would have been nice if etsy had have CHECKED if they had unfilled orders, and maybe sent me a MESSAGE, to say "hey, noticed you have an unfilled order from shadejewelry. They are no longer with etsy but we will endeavour to ensure they fill your order blah blah blah".
So yeah, there may be valid concerns about chris' customer service, but etsy's customer service has been pretty poor too.
Anyway Chris I've sent you an email - hope we can get our order in time for the wedding still.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
There's no love lost between me and Addie -- we are often at odds for one reason or another on the Etsy forums, crossed swords and all that -- but I honestly doubt she's making this shit up now.
Why? Because a person loses a lot of face when they have to publicly admit that someone they were staunchly defending may have been guilty after all.... and nobody likes to lose face, least of all someone who prides herself on her reputation as much as she does. So...
The screen shot does not make sense to me either, Karina; I went through every single refund and reversal I've done, and in each case the final "Net" column ended up as a negative number to show that money had left my hands. I dunno. :/
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
dallas, I do appreciate the frustration and I wish Etsy was more buyer-friendly in general. :(
The problem with Etsy going back through a closed seller's sales and e-mailing each customer, in my opinion, is that a) it could be a nightmarishly time-consuming task, don't you think? X number of sellers shut down every week times Y number of past customers... oy vey! and b) they cannot say anything remotely close to "we will endeavour that they will complete your order". Etsy has zero power over a seller once they leave the venue; Etsy can't promise you squat, unfortunately. :(
I'm sure Shade will be doing his best to fulfill your order, but if things fall through I would like to extend the offer I made above (to Alethea and Jeremy) to you and Addie both. Silver rings, free of charge, as a gesture of goodwill and reassurance for you on your special days. Weddings are stressful enough without worrying about the rings.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
@kieran
I'm really not sure about a paypal charge back , this is my first one, so i don't' have anything to base my info off of other then the money is no longer in my account and I called pay-pal customer service. if you would kindly contact me I do have a couple questions for you, in private.
after leaving etsy I kindly asked addie to stop giving information out about me, I realize she had the best intentions in mind, but her facts where off and I wanted to mitigate any damage done. which has failed miserably.
I try to be very open, and I will admit that I , as well as everyone else has made mistakes, you may notice the every other customer that has posted here has been treated by me kindly, politely, and with good service, in an attempt to make the customer happy in the end, whether that is possible or not. but at least everyone here either has rings back from me, or a full refund!
except for addie, my problem is her claims are literally baseless and the things she is saying and the way she is saying them are reprehensible and furthermore without merit.
and that is really all i can say about it.
I feel like I'm in high school again, with a bunch of brain dead lemmings following each other sometimes. I really thought the etsy community was better than that, I guess not.
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
@dallas
I'll resend my reply to you in a few hours when I'm back in my office.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
@ shadejewelq
I fail at spelling
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
I'd also like to point out that Addie is posting here using a pseudonym, so apparently what she is saying isn't important enough for her to actually stand behind with her real name. just some fake name. why not use your real name?
-Chris
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
My name is linked to my etsy site. Everyone knows who I am. Even you, Chris.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
And I would ALSO like to point out that, you, Chris, never once asked me to stop defending you, not even suggested it. And All I ever did was give out a link to a thread that YOU YOURSELF spoke in about why you were "leaving" etsy. I didn't speak for you at all or use any misinformation. I simply gave out the link, which is what I would have wanted someone to do for me in the situation. All you ever do is lie and more and more of YOUR unhappy customers are coming to me with similar stories of scams and lies that you have put them through, which is really sad. Trying to make me look bad by saying Im here under a fake name isn't really helping your case. I have not only posted my link to my etsy site, but I have posted an entire paypal transaction with my FULL name included. I have not lied for one second about this whole ordeal and it's sad that you have to. You are now down to 5 days. You have wasted two already. No rings, no money. NOTHING. And you were wrong about PA and attorneys~ I contacted 2 attorneys and they all said that for the right price they would come after you. Not because of the price of $150.00 but because of A) Wire Fraud and B) Emotional Pain/Suffering of my upcoming ceremony (PRICELESS!) which can all be blamed on you.
I cant tell you how many people on etsy have offered me free rings, discounted rings, or a donation toward new rings for my ceremony. ALL of these people would not offer such pricey "gifts" if they thought for ONE second that I was lying. I am absolutely not lying, simply because I have NO reason to. It wouldn't be worth my time to sit here and argue over money that was returned or rings that were delivered. There are so many holes in your story, and so VERY MANY displeased "customers" of yours that I dont know how you will move on to handle all of these situations.
Wouldnt it make sense.. (I was just asking my husband this) if you ran a respectable business.. and made me into a repeat customer, that way you could actually make MORE money off of me, rather than scamming me. Doesnt being reputable provide more benefits than scamming???
I mean, having good feedback and happy customers is not only important, but it can be more lucrative than pissing everyone off. right?
If you had not scammed me out of my money and my rings, I would have been a happy customer.. one that would come back time and time again. My husband and I plan on having a ceremony every year, and as spoiled as I am, I would love new rings every year for the 2 of us. (I plan on making that a reality, which would have meant loads of $$$ for you.)
You would have made so much MORE money off of me by making me into a repeat customer, rather that stealing my $150.00 and ruining my ceremony! With good customer service, you would have doubled, tripled, etc, this simple $150.00. But, there comes that customer service thing again.. Which you, have no idea about. Happy customers make way more money for you than a bunch of pissed off people. But, You aren't business minded, and as pussdaddy has already pointed out, You "dont have a business bone in your corpulent body"!
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
I know who eyeNEED is...was very easy to figure out.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Um, she DID post her real name. I don't think Addie is hiding who she is; she's likely posting under a pseudonym here to avoid Google picking up her business name connected with the drama, which isn't unintelligent. People who are hiding don't tend to post things that involve their real full name or link to their etsy sites, eh?
Sure Chris, ask me anything. You can use my arcadian-dreams.com email address listed above.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Kieran, thank you for the kind offer, and I have thanked everyone else for their offers as well. However, my husband and I have decided not to accept any of them because he and I think it would be unfair for more people to lose money because of Chris. My husband and I went today and looked into getting him a matching band for my new ring (which came yesterday)~ I ended up getting a 4.5 carat pink heart shaped topaz in 14K white gold. I really love it. So, we have a plan and all should be ok for our ceremony. I still would have really liked my rings from Chris, because I have been wanting something fun/plain that I can clean the house in.. without worrying about banging up my gemstones. But I'm sure I will find what Im looking for sooner or later. As for now, Im just happy that we have a plan in order and I am really overwhelmed by everyone's understanding and generosity related to this whole scam.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Kieran - thank you for your kind offer, but I'm sure everything will work out. You are totally correct about weddings being stressful!!
Chris - how is our order going? I look forward to receiving your email.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Hope you get your rings, dallas. Seems quite a few customers have been left high and dry here it sounds.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Dallas, please have a back up plan. I am not joking. I doubt you will get your rings. In fact, I doubt you will get anything but a hard time.
:(
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Hey Dallas- I would definitely be looking for other rings at this point if I were you. I ordered a ring from Shade over two months ago for a wedding that is now three weeks away. Two months- no rings, no refund, and barely a reply. It is unlikely you will get your rings from Shade either. I would really advise that you at least have a backup plan and do not count on these rings showing up. Good luck...
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
malahide7, I am sad to see you were left empty handed as well. It seems this list of unhappy customers just continues to grow.. I hope your investment in said rings was not too much. Because you, like me, will probably not get any money, or any rings..
ever.
:(
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Thanks, EYEneed. It does seem like the list of empty-handed customers is growing. We were able to make arrangements for another ring we actually liked better. At this point, I am just trying to get my money back. I have filed for chargeback through paypal and will dispute the charge on my credit card if necessary. I also think we have a good case for criminal fraud charges against Shade.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
@malahide7
It might also be a good idea to actually contact me.
I just searched my sold records, and I have no sale from a user-name malahide7
so yeah, contacting me might be a good idea.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Etsy username TheDuguay. After seven or eight unanswered messages in your direction, one would think that just dropping you an email is probably not the most effective of options.
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
send me an e-mail and I'll give you your tracking information
EtsyCallOut September 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM