PIF FAIL

8:45 PM Wednesday, August 26, 2009

Pay It Forward's are supposed to be .20 with free shipping but let's take a looksie around the Etsy horn and 3 readers found these:

artfaerie
<a href="http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=22228730">http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=22228730</a> (39 0f 74 items are PIFs)

chrissycreations
<a href="http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=26912446">http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=26912446</a>

ShanasShop
<a href="http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=28781856">http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=28781856</a> (18 out of 43 items are PIFs, 14 of the 18 are also tagged ’sale’)

mandalarain
“Please do not purchase this without another $10 item from my store — it will be cancelled” <a href="http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=27896079">http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=27896079</a>

100% of it is being donated to charity. does that make it a pif? i’m not sure i understand. is it mistagging, or is it etsy legal?
FoxyGknits
<a href="http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=20641864">http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=20641864</a>

BethBoudin
<a href="http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=6639345">http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=6639345</a>
For a while, she kept putting up alchemy requests for donations, usually refillable ink cartridges. Now she mistags PIFs.

40 comments:

  1. Anotherdemonstration of how too many Etsy sellers feel they can get away with misrepresenting their merchandise to the community. It may seem more offensive because it abuses the concept of PIF, but it's really no different than being a reseller and using tags, title and description to try and convince a shopper the item is handmade or vintage or supplies when it isn't any of the above.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  2. Artfaerie is the worst.

    "I'm offering these PIF to help others in need"

    *vomit*

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  3. LMFAO with ArtFaerie - if those are "shop closing" sale prices - I'd HATE to see what they are normally. No wonder their shop is closing, the seller is f-ing mental for the prices they are trying to charge - $3.60 for ONE PAIR of oxidized silver earrings? Really??? Give me a friggin' break.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  4. I wonder if some of these sellers are confused about what PIF truly is on etsy.

    Some of these listings look like they're thinking that PIF is based on the Pay it Forward book or movie, and that they are truly paying it forward by donating the money made from the sale of these items to charities or causes (or so they say).

    Maybe they think that the etsy PIF is the same thing?

    And then there are those, like the sample used as a listing with the explicit order to NOT buy it unless you buy something else - FLAGGED! - who are just blatantly abusing the PIF idea.
    Wankers.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  5. I occaisionally have a PIFs in my store, but they're $.20 w/ free shipping, like I feel they're supposed to be. I had one buyer purchase one and when I checked her feedback, I saw that she purchased 90% PIF. She also had a lot of PIFs in her shop but she charged normal prices for the items and gave discounts on shipping if you bought more than one item. I almost convo'd her to tell her, gently, that she was abusing the notion of PIFs but figured it wasn't worth the keystrokes.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  6. Since PIFs aren't covered under Etsy TOU (right? please correct me if I'm wrong), people can do whatever they like and call whatever they like a pif. They may be misleading, but are they actually breaking any rules? I ask because I really don't know.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  7. They should just do away with PIF's....Etsy is supposed to be a selling venue.

    OR...regulate it.

    Etsy isnt the 'one big family' it once was, so it needs to grow up and be a real selling site.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  8. These really piss me off. There was a time when I was really really broke and I looked for a PIF because I felt like shopping on Etsy but had no money. I planned to pay it forward with a true PIF of a decent handmade piece of jewelry later on down the road. When I started looking through them it was either crap stuff or they were charging for shipping or just outright charging for the item using the tag PIF. That left such a bad taste in my mouth that I never did do a PIF for someone else. It was a good idea in the beginning, but it became bastardized by sellers who are either greedy or ignorant.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  9. I like Brenda's comment; Etsy needs to "grow up"! I agree with you wholeheartedly!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  10. Technically, the PIF is supposed to be free. So even though Etsy doesn't allow you to make a listing for less than .20, the seller shouldn't collect the payment for the item at all (buyer should just skip the PayPal step, like an NPB).

    You can't stop some people from being sleazy. You just have to decide not to do business with them and move on.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  11. But you do have to just laugh:

    $30, with the instructions:

    "you purchase at the special price stated plus shipping, in return, please to be kind to others, do good deeds to help, perform a random act of kindness for someone. Then, in turn they will go fourth & do something nice for others as well."

    Send me your money and be nice to others. Sounds like a born-again tele-evangelist.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  12. Heh - I'm glad I asked (and probably should have looked in the forums as well) as I was unaware that shipping should not be included. I don't charge for "handling" as it is and my shipping costs are the exact figure that the materials cost to send it out. No excuses though, I was just ignorant of that fact. My bad.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  13. PIF's are something that a seller came up with way back in the first years of etsy as a way to 'pay it forward', and also as a way to build up feedback and sales figures in their shop. It is *not* covered by etsy rules and regulations, and it is not an etsy sponsored thing, so basically sellers can pif all day long and charge whatever they want to for their pif's, and etsy doesn't really care. It has become just another sales tool for sellers to try and get exposure for their shops, the original meaning has been totally lost in translation. Flagging a shop that isn't following what we think the pif *rules* are won't do much good since there are no concrete set in writing rules. Hopefully buyers will see through this scam.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  14. "it became bastardized by sellers who are either greedy or ignorant."

    As opposed to someone who is so cheap they hunt out pifs so they can have nice things for free? Nice way to do your shopping there skippy.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  15. “it became bastardized by sellers who are either greedy or ignorant.”

    As opposed to someone who is so cheap they hunt out pifs so they can have nice things for free? Nice way to do your shopping there skippy.
    __________
    I was looking for one item. One, not like the 400 + PIFs that one "buyer" has purchased on Etsy. I wanted a handmade item when I was broke. I don't see anything wrong with wanting one if people are offering them. I would never ask for a discount or anything of the kind. If I got a PIF, I was going to offer one as well. Like I said, it never happened and now I am in a position to purchase my handmade items at full price, so I do.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  16. I also see lots of abuse and misuse of the PIF concept but I don't see what the big deal is if it's someone who is tagging PIF and donating all of the money to a charity.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  17. This douche nozzle has this item for supplies listed as a bracelet:

    http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=11412018&ref=sr_list_10&&ga_search_query=gemstone%2C+bracelet&ga_search_type=handmade&ga_page=&order=price_asc&includes[]=tags&includes[]=title

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  18. Is the name calling really necessary? These beads can be used to make a bracelet so what is the big deal? Do you all spend your day searching Etsy for sellers to complain about? If only you used your energy toward PIFs...

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  19. I took advantage of a PIF before (plus shipping), and the next day I bought coffee for someone behind me in line. It was fun.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  20. Ok I took a look at all of the mentioned listings. And for the most part, they don't follow the idea of PIF at all. But is it necessary to call them douche's and such? I have to disagree wholeheartedly though on you calling out FoxyGKnits. I would still consider that a PIF. 100% of the profit is going towards the chosen charity. She isn't charging shipping either! You're right....what an a--hole for doing something nice and thoughtful! You people are really tarnishing the spirit of PIF when you call out good people like that. Lame....
    Are you pissed off because it goes against PIF? Or are you pissed off cause you're not getting free stuff?

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  21. I have to say I too looked around etsy to see what the "guide lines are for PIF items". there are none! which means each shop has the right to outline how they want. I agree that there are some people who take advantage of it to make sales to get their store names out there (which makes me mad!) however, going through the shops you listed above the FoxyGKnits does not seem to fit your profile here. She has many pay it foward items. If you ever watch the movie Pay it foward (great movie) the young man simply helps one man out by getting him off the streets. He then returns the favor to the community. If you don't know what PIF really means then you shouldn't be putting an article up like this.
    I agree with the last comment --she paid it foward. Meaning she listed the item. sold the item and then took the proceeds to the local hosipital where her family member worked (notice the past tense!)

    theres is a golden rule here:
    DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO YOURSELF.

    I really think you owe her an appolgie. I could see if she only listed one PIF item and you were pissed about that but she doesn't she donates out the wazzo. which i think is amazing in this day and age since most of us can't give.
    just a thought to think about.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  22. HT in GA - Um, have you read the info on correct tagging because duh, obviously you haven't. You CAN NOT list something as "bracelet" when it is a "SUPPLY"

    EVERY supply could be turned into SOMETHING - but you can not TAG it as a completed item. Jesus.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  23. "Pay It Forward’s are supposed to be .20 with free shipping"


    Actually, it's supposed to be completely free. However, since it's not regulated by Etsy, folks can create their PIF listings any way they want to.

    Just like anyone can have a blog and post hateful things about other people.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  24. Things don't have to be "Etsy illegal" to be called out here. I agree that the really high priced PIF-offers carry a positive vibe, they just got caught in the cross-fire. As for the name calling of the other "piffers" on the list... To most of us it probably doesn't seem necessary, as we have a pretty strong opinion on their behavior, but the ones "helping people in need" might need it to be put on writing to get it. Or maybe it's just frustration, as only one of the items/sellers listed on the post can be reported to Etsy.

    I wish good sales to Foxy, her items are wonderful.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  25. i had posed that question about foxys item being etsy "legal" or not, because i really didn't know. i was curious. i was hoping someone would enlighten me, and the visitor, and others above answered that for me. thank you.

    i have come to understand that pifs are not etsy regulated, so really a seller can charge what ever they desire.

    i think people may get pissed starla because there seems to be a rule of a .20 listing. shoot i didn't know there wasn't a rule :) some may get pissed because they offer what seems to be the standard .20 listing, and then get buried under other listings that are more expensive.

    i did search out pifs once because i was going through a tough time, didn't have much money, and wanted to do something nice for myself. (i never bought because nothing caught my eye) but people do seek out pifs because they are "free". at the time i looked, the priciest one was a couple of bucks. :) i can see where people may get aggravated because they actually are looking for "free" items. call people cheap, but it's true.

    the idea behind foxys pif is a great one, and it is admirable. i have seen many shops who donate 100% of all their proceeds to charity, and don't call their listings pifs. that's why i was confused.

    i was also confused because by buying the pif at $85.00 you are the one essentially donating the money. so wouldn't you be the one doing good in the first place? i'm not trying to critisize foxys motivations by any means, i just understood a pif to be someone making you smile by selling you something you want for "free", and you in turn do something for someone else to make them smile.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  26. End of argument. Straight from the horse's mouth:

    "We don't necessarily have any rules about PIF listings other than that they must be listed at at least $.20 (which is the traditional price for PIFs)."

    Keyword: MUST.

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6263783&page=7

    (Etsy is the horse in question, not Michelle.)

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  27. i was also confused because by buying the pif at $85.00 you are the one essentially donating the money. so wouldn’t you be the one doing good in the first place? >>>

    the issue I see with having a listing for sale at full price but called a PIF is this...unless the buyer insists on a copy of the donation receipt, how does the buyer know the seller is actually donating the money? and like you said, the seller is getting the tax receipt and the recognition for the donation. (note: I haven't actually gone to look at the store so maybe she does prove it somehow) Otherwise, she could be pocketing the money and just looking like the hero for 'donating' all the income.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  28. Well, the buyer wouldn't really be donating anything, unless they really don't want the product, or pay more than the product's worth. They just get what they pay for. But I don't think it's paying it forward, more sideways (if we're thinking on the seller-buyer axis here) :D It's up to the potential buyer to decide, what kind of proof they need to make them willing to buy the item.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  29. that mandalarain seller somehow has an item listed for TEN cents (is this possible on etsy?)
    http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=27896079

    and it is conditional.. ONLY if you buy something else from them, otherwise they will cancel the sale.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  30. quoted:
    Bedazzled Condom Says:
    Artfaerie is the worst.
    “I’m offering these PIF to help others in need”
    *vomit*

    reply:
    Please refer to my earlier comment, don't you think my PIF did help others in need????? I am so sorry to say that you did not benefit from my PIF, doesn't means no one does!

    Thank you!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  31. quoted:
    Christine Says:
    LMFAO with ArtFaerie – if those are “shop closing” sale prices – I’d HATE to see what they are normally. No wonder their shop is closing, the seller is f-ing mental for the prices they are trying to charge – $3.60 for ONE PAIR of oxidized silver earrings? Really??? Give me a friggin’ break.

    reply:
    Here's the link to the $3.60 oxidized sterling fish hooks with coil and rondelle bead,
    http://www.etsy.com/view_transaction.php?transaction_id=19008198

    Please read my listing carefully, these were not listed as PIF item and not sale price, I did not mentioned or tagged 'PIF' or 'sales' in the listing at all! I did listed some links to my PIF items in my shop.

    'shop closing' in the title just to tell my buyers that I am closing my shop and I provided a link to my shop closing announcement at the bottom of the listing:
    http://www.etsy.com/profile.php?user_id=5178977.

    Over there, I mentioned no sales but some PIF great price items, buyer should read and understand not all items are PIF.

    I have been selling these ear hooks at $3.60, cause I bought them around $3plus per pair as a retail buyer.

    FireMountainGems is selling similar ear hooks from $6 to $3 per pair based on the quantity you order.
    http://www.firemountaingems.com/shopping.asp?skw=KWEARFISHSS

    As I mentioned before, I am not a reseller, I do not buy wholesales at dirt cheap price and sell on etsy to make money!

    Please read details, find out the truth and market price before making any comment!

    Thank you for mentioning, so I can comment again :)

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  32. quoted:
    Max Says:
    Technically, the PIF is supposed to be free. So even though Etsy doesn’t allow you to make a listing for less than .20, the seller shouldn’t collect the payment for the item at all (buyer should just skip the PayPal step, like an NPB).
    You can’t stop some people from being sleazy. You just have to decide not to do business with them and move on.

    Again, PIF does not means FREE or .20 with free shipping!

    Please read these
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Pay_It_Forward

    Thanks so much!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  33. quoted:
    Max Says:
    But you do have to just laugh:
    $30, with the instructions:
    “you purchase at the special price stated plus shipping, in return, please to be kind to others, do good deeds to help, perform a random act of kindness for someone. Then, in turn they will go fourth & do something nice for others as well.”
    Send me your money and be nice to others. Sounds like a born-again tele-evangelist.

    reply:
    Yes, send me the amount listed and RECEIVED the collectible art beads at a special price BELOW the actual value of the beads! If you know nothing of artisan lampwork beads, you will never appreciate the value of the beads!!!

    Please refer to
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Pay_It_Forward again.

    As I mentioned before, I couldn't afford to give them away free cause I bought them with my hard earned money! But I am happy to share with fellow lampbead collectors at below cost price that I am comfortable with and don't you think buyers who appreciate the value do benefit from buying them?

    I did not ask you to pay me for nothing. Further more, if you do not appreciate them you would not buy, so did I do you any harm? or was I cheating you for your money?

    Those are not instructions, I have no control over buyers actions, they choose to PIF or not, it's up to them. My intention is to help my buyers who love lampbeads as I do, hoping they could do somethings with them to make the world better.

    Again, I am so sorry to say that you did not benefit from my PIF, doesn't means no one does!

    Thank you!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  34. Agnes,
    It's not a PIF, it's liquidating your assets a.k.a. a sale.

    Big stores often sell things they want to get rid of for prices that don't really give them profit, just to salvage what ever they can. Does that mean they are *paying it forward*? What about flea markets and yard sales? Also, *people in need* don't buy $30 lampwork beads. I hope your customers bought your items despite the PIF abuse and not because of it. You can post that wikipedia link as many times as you want, it's not going to change my mind. It's not illegal, not even "Etsy illegal", it's just tacky, and makes you look bad in MY eyes.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  35. I felt i had to make a comment regarding this nasty blog. Whilst you are all sitting on your high horses judging others maybe you should take out of the leaf out of the book you are commenting on and do a bit of PIF yourselves. Paying it forward means being kind to others and that includings not being bitchy and say the most horrendous things about others.

    I have only just started making jewellery in the last year. I used to buy china and Indian beads but i found they didnt last, they broke and cracked but that was because i didnt know any different. I didnt know about artisan beads and i had never heard of ETSY.

    Someone who makes jewellery was kind enough to tell me about ETSY and when i visited the site one of the first sellers i came across was ArtFaerie and all those wonderful beads.

    Believe me i have researched every single one of the artisan beads that i have purchased from her and i wouldnt have been able to afford to buy them from the artisan who made them. Agnes has made this possible for me.

    It seems to me that while you are sitting here all making nasty comments about others and i might add not to their faces which is even worse and so sly and two-faced, you might all want to grow up, instead of sitting around doing nothing, get to work instead of slagging off others who are working....SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  36. Oh and just for the record, i have purchased 5 whimsical beads artisan beads made by a famous lamp worker for $16.00 to me that was a complete bargain and having checked out her name from the SRA list, i found her on ebay, i could not have afforded those 5 beads if i had to pay the prices they go for on ebay. So to me that is a gift.

    I have also purchased a number of other beads from Agnes and today she writes to me that she has found 2 more of those same beads and she is sending me those same beads for free, this was before i read this nasty blog!

    She didnt need to do that, she didnt need to send me free gifts by the bag full but she did, when i opened up her parcels it was like christmas with all the free gifts, including more artisan beads.

    It is so easy these days to talk about others because you arent facing them, but to me it just shows how immature all those who made nasty comments are and it also shows their lack of morals. Computers give you the safety of never having to face that person and make those comments to their faces..which i very much doubt you would anyway.

    So if you all want to get on your moral high horses you might want to take a look at yourselves in the mirror!!!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  37. I believe the issue here is that Etsy doesn't have a rule about what an "Etsy PIF" is. If they did, there wouldn't be this type of discussion.

    I've purchased various PIFs for various prices. I've bought a lot of beads from Art Faerie, even done trades for beads. I know a lot about artisan lampwork and am really, really familiar with many of the people who have made the beads she is selling, and they really do cost that much. Many of the bead makers sell them for quite a bit more -- some glass artists sell sets for thousands. I'd say the vast majority of people who purchase beads of that sort know this. So getting a set of beads at some of those prices is a steal.

    The bottom line is, if the buyer wants something, they're going to buy it. If they're turned off by something, they won't. I don't see it as hurting anyone.

    I do wish that Etsy would make a hard set rule on PIFs so call-outs like this wouldn't exist.

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  38. I have sadly just received my last lot of beads from Artfaerie. I had ordered as i said in my last message 5 whimsy beads, 2 focal beads with 4 smaller beads, two lots of 9 other beads all artisan made and a set of 3 beads two plain and 1 floral as well as numerous silver beads that i managed to get at a really good price.

    I did however, rec two parcels in the post from Artfaerie, this other parcel much larger. Inside to my surprise and gratitude were 4 large hollow focal beads artisan beads made by a famous Hollow bead maker, a set of 8 whimsical artisan beads, 1 of the blue flower pod beads i had already purchased, a set of 3 flat blue lentil artisan beads, 3 small blue, orange, and lilac artisan beads, 3 daisy whimsical beads, a white and pink heart artisan made focal bead, two other famous artisan beads, 13 artisan made polymer clay roses, 2 sterling silver beads, 1 marcasite watch face, 2 very large sterling silver clasps and to top it all off a gorgeous chinese bag charm.

    Oh and lets not forget the two beads she promised me to add to the set i had already purchased.

    I think that everything that was left in the shop when she closed it came in my package today, now you tell me if that isnt paying it forward i dont know what is and i think some people owes someone an apology!

    I personally cant thank her enough!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  39. You can't thank her enough ............ we , don't care

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

  40. How Petty!

    Wacky & Tacky Etsy

Post a Comment